I was having a look through Richmonds list this morning and can honestly say that I don't rate it much better (if any) then our own. The fact that they have won more games last year and this says something else.

I am wondering if people agree that when compared to our own list there is something wrong with us that we aren't performing as well as they are.

Or are they going though what we went through in 2004 - false expectation through close wins?

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

I can see where you are coming from KingKerna.

On paper there is very little between the sides.

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There is no footy god

Had major improvement from players like Hyde, Pettifer, Tambling and are finally seeing some value from Simmonds. I think Wallace has eeked everything he can out of the list but I dont see them being a threat now or in the near future...

Young recruits in Raines, Polo have also impressed....
From memory, Hyde, Fevs mate Newman and Coughlan were all taken in the infamous 2000 draft...makes our early picks look a bit sick....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

How good is young Raines!!! They didnt use a F/S pick on him, just hoped that, coming from QLD nobody else would know about him and he would skip through to them, which he obviously did. Wish we had chipped in and spoiled the party. Looks very composed on the ball for a young player.

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

dont forget out two key tall forwards are injured .. makes a huge difference to our structure (and ultimately the results)


.. go blues ..

I've been saying this for a while now! IN FACT, last year i said we had a better list than:-

Richmond
North
Essendon*
Port Adelaide
Hawthorn

& i was even crazy enough to go as far as to say our list was close to that of Adelaide & Geelong. YEAH - That's right, i did!

Throw shit at me all you like.........But the list of the Crows hasn't changed all that much since we beat em AND finished above them in 2004. At the seasons end, they were picked for the spoon "Because of their list". Next thing you know, they were premiership favourites.

Same deal with Geelong - I don't rate them at all. They have a few stars but they are far to inconsistant to win a premiership. Ottens, Kingsley, Kelly.
They have Ling/Bartel/Scarlett & Ablett - take one of those players out & they're in big trouble.

I just don't think our list warrents the amount of crap it get's dished out.

*Superstars* (who can turn a game)
Carlton
Stevens/Kouta/Whitnall/Fevola

Geelong
Bartel/Ling/Scarlett/Ablet

Adelaide
Roo/McCleod/Burton/Goodwin

*Good players* (who can assist and be important)
Carlton
Walker/Thornton/Waite/Lappin

Geelong
Corey/Kelly/King/Chapman

Adelaide
Bigglands/Bassett/Edwards/Johncock

On paper, our list really isn't that bad - and the most exciting thing about it is our back up players are still developing compared whilst other teams lists need topping up BAD!!!! (see Essendon* & Port & North for good examples.

So why is it that Geelong & Adelaide can improve since 2004 (remember, at the start of 2004 Geelongs list was considered crap too - remember we beat them by 50 points!!!)

For me, i put it down to two things...........................

#1:- CONFIDENCE
#2:- COACHING STAFF.

Not sure about the other 15 teams out there but i know that our boys confidence has been shot at that the sad thing is, on occasions, their confidence has been shot BY OUR COACHING STAFF.

I've said all along - i have faith in this list! I really do.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

I continually tell a mate of mine that I refuse to accept that we have a significantly worse list then Hawthorn or Richmond, but seem to play that way. Now why would that be? Ryan2000 hits the nail on the head - coaches and confidence.

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"I had to eat"

As Jars would know, you can manipulate stats to work either for or against you. On the weekend, I heard them praising the tiggers for having 10 or so players who have played less than 35 games. I thought wow that's amazing. First thing I did when I got home was check out their playing list expecting 10 blokes under 20 years old. What I found was;

Hartigan - 21
Tuck - 24
Schultz - 21
Humm - 23
Moore - 22
Foley - 25
Roach - 20 in his 3rd year.

So my theory is we have a better list, although they too have some young talen, but ours are still much, much younger than their 'rookies' overall.

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end of message

Coburg Seniors (VFL affliate with the Tigers) had a bye this week, so a lot of AFL listed players played for their reserves this week.

Go have a read in TalkingBullants for a bit of info but our team won. You can argue the idea of a champion team as a unit will always a team of champions but you can only push that barrow so far.

I think we have some gems to uncover still.

it makes a big difference when midfielders actually hit targets though as well, giving anyone in the forward line to have some opportunities.

We can have these guys back, but it won't matter too much if the ball gets turned over everytime it goes down there.

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SDC, influential in keeping fast food companies in business since 2005.

It also makes a difference when our midfielders have targets to actually hit!

Regardless of skills, we ain't gonna kick goals when we flood so much!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

*Good players* (who can assist and be important)
Carlton
Walker/Thornton/Waite/Lappin

Geelong
Corey/Kelly/King/Chapman

Adelaide
Bigglands/Bassett/Edwards/Johncock

pass me that pipe man!

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I support Carlton, Fulham and I'm an accountant - my mate calls me a 3 time loser.

sorry dude, i Don't smoke!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

So do we agree that our list is equal to Richmonds? If so it comes down to attitude and coaches etc. I still think Richmond are playing 'above their weight division' and will hit rock bottom in the next year or so but it really gets to me seeing them win and looked on in a positive way.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Its how many crap players you have....how our bottom ten players stack up against the others...think you are selling Adelaide short....they have lost Perrie, Welsh, Bock, Hudson yet cover them with ease...we lose Fisher and Waite... and Fev aside we cant buy a goal....
Adelaide are very even and carry few passengers....

Richmond have a fair amount of crap on their list but you add a fit Nathan Brown to it and it looks a lot better.....Their midfield with Tuck, Coughlan, Kane Johnson and Deledio isnt bad on paper either.....you add an in form Simmonds and I wouldnt be backing us to beat them especially with Nathan Brown playing.....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

[quote="kingkerna"]I was having a look through Richmonds list this morning and can honestly say that I don't rate it much better (if any) then our own. The fact that they have won more games last year and this says something else.

I am wondering if people agree that when compared to our own list there is something wrong with us that we aren't performing as well as they are.

Or are they going though what we went through in 2004 - false expectation through close wins?[/quote

richmond have 20 players 21 or under on their list with another 10 under 25. they have very few players aged 24 thru 28 or players in their prime. with the right recruiting. in 3 yrs time when a good percentage of their juniors enter the 24 to 28 bracket they will have some sustained success.

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A DUD IS A DUD IS A DUD

Man when I started reading this I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bag the coach and it took 4 post, that has to be some type of record these days doesn't it...

Anyway, I think that we have a similar list to Richmond. It will be interesting to see us all in three years.

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

i really dont care how many games richmond win this year or next year or the year after fact is there not going to win a premiership in any of these years whereas we will be finishing at the bottom end of the ladder during these years and packing up our team with more high draft picks

at the moment i think we are level pegging with richmond and over the next 3 years if we pick up high draft picks and they dont then we are making very big inroads and in about 6-8 years our list will be a lot better than theirs and will also be capable of winning a premiership when richo goes they have nothing in their forward line wheereas we have fevola, fisher, waite and kennedy who are all aged between 18-25 and are all potential superstars

we all know terry wallace isnt any good in september and denis is so i imo we will definitely win a premiership before richmond and as far as im concerned thats all that counts

When you try and compare the lists especially with Geelong or Adelaide you need to match up onballers with onballers and then you will see we don't have the depth there that those clubs do.

If you compare the onball brigade with the Tigers you will also see that they have more depth there. Which when you take us out of the first two rounds of 2 drafts is only to be expected. We are a year or two behind them for midfielders but ahed in key position options with Richardson Gaspar Kellaway coming towards the end of their careers and Waite and Kennedy just starting

If you also look at the goal to goal lines between us and the top teams you will also see the difference between us is that we are missing a big strong mobile defender whilst most of them have two on the field.

Of the list you mention, only 2 of those guys played. Humm isnt even on their list, only rookie. They played a lot of players with 35 or less games and most of them are very young. Polo, Raines, Deledio, Tambing, Pattison, Meyer. Also Foley is only 20.

They are going along nicely but are no threat to make finals.