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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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AGRO wrote:
BlueWorld wrote:
No but apparently we should have!!!


10 meaningless wins - not knocking Russell or Hartlett, as they both may play 200 games with the club - but a Deledio would have come in real handy.


Griffen wouldn't have been too bad either. I reckon he is the best player of that draft.
Russell I reckon will be a good player...Hartlett I'm not sure whether he will get to 2 games let alone 200


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:02 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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How low have we sunk that we're now saying winning 10 games was meaningless? :evil:

Ridiculous to say thrashing the WCE in Walker's debut at Princes Park, beating the Scum by three kicks, Waite kicking the winner against the Pies and Fev nailing that matchwinner in Moronville are meaningless.

Wins will always live longer than draft picks and getting a Deledio or Griffen. :evil: :roll:

But not a Tambling.

Every supporter should hope for 10 wins even if it meant missing out on one of the top five guns in this year's draft. This attitude is as bad as the Carlton supporter I overheard say he wants to win the spoon so Essendon* don't get Gibbs and Gibbs is a mixture of Hird and Buckley. :roll:

I've never seen Mojo once write I want the spoon! even though he appears to know these kids inside out. Stuff getting the spoon or finishing bottom four if we can have 10 wins again! :x

Criticising the ineptitude of our Board and wanting Pagan sacked yet wishing we'd lost when he coached 10 wins! :lol: :roll:

:(


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:08 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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What was our third win for the season that year and how did that impact your life??

Who did we draft at number 1 last year??

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Synbad wrote:
What was our third win for the season that year and how did that impact your life??

How does drafting players impact on your life? :roll:
Quote:
Who did we draft at number 1 last year??

Is this relevant to winning 10 games in 2004?

Completely separate issues.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:07 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Speakers, not trying to be a hero or anything but I sent several emails to the fukcsticks at AFL House in the week following the penalties predicting this type of demise and accusing them of being grossly incompetent with the penalties. I felt that given the shocking nature of our list at that time, prohibiting us from the first 2 rounds of the draft for 2 years was pretty much the equivalent to a death sentence.

My view on this is pretty much based on the premise that whilst off field management is vital to the financial viability of a club, and we have been hopeless in this area for a decade now, on field matters are absolutely paramount to a club's success and vitality. A club may be able to ride out 2 or 3 years of mediocrity, but not 5, 6 or even 7 years like we are enduring at present. Sooner or later, the wheels start to fall off because supporters and all those associated with the club (sponsors and the like) become disenfranchised and lose interest. As a sporting team you want to see a competitive unit, one that has a chance to succeed. Not a rabble, year after year after year...

I suggested to them that whilst a penalty might be appropriate (even though the AFL's rules would not stand up in a court of law), it should perhaps be in the form of a deduction of premiership points for the following year or perhaps even two years. At least the penalty would only hurt us for those years instead of a decade and perhaps even indefinitely. Players are a clubs most important asset. It is already ridiculously difficult to manage a list by the drip fed method of the draft but when it is essentially your most important resource for player talent it is absolutely critical to have full access to it.

I already know the response to this last paragraph - who did we miss out on? This is not the issue. Removing access to the draft is a brutal and negligent decision to impose on a club. Especially when a club was in the position that we were in in 2002.

I sent emails to the AFL and even to the club, especially following the scums feather duster penalties for blatant TPP breaches when paying Lloyd and Hird for internet rights outside the TPP. I pleaded to them to make a stand, not so much to pressure the AFL to increase the penalties to the scum but to perhaps plead our case and to consider some sort of compensation.

No response, no answers

However, now that were almost 5 years down the track and the situation has reached crisis point, I believe it is now dawning on those fools at the AFL that they and Carlton have a gigantic problem on their hands. A club that was capable of generating the type of support and crowds that the AFL are proud of is a shadow of what it once was. And if something drastic doesn't happen in the next 12 months, it is only going to get worse.

Obviously foresight is not a quality that is required by the powers that be at the AFL! :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:04 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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JuzzCarlton wrote:
Synbad wrote:
What was our third win for the season that year and how did that impact your life??

How does drafting players impact on your life? :roll:
Quote:
Who did we draft at number 1 last year??

Is this relevant to winning 10 games in 2004?

Completely separate issues.


You will remember Marc Murphy for a long time.

You can't remember our 3rd win in 2004 and probably enjoyed until we lost the following week. Not a very long time.

They are related.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:20 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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marciblue wrote:
No response, no answers....
...Obviously foresight is not a quality that is required by the powers that be at the AFL! :roll:



Very Don Quixote of you Marci :wink: - guilty of the same thing myself. :wink:

The only thing that The Spew and Ron Evans would have responded to was a swift kick in the cods.

Now you will only get platitudinal responses from these flower like "its an unfortunate situation", "we could not have forseen" - complete lies and bulltish from these complete !@#$%& who are in charge of destroying our game. :roll:

Another couple of qualifications for the World Cup Finals - and the AFL will be selling their TV rights to Channel 31 for a six pack and a packet of peanuts. :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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AGRO wrote:
Another couple of qualifications for the World Cup Finals - and the AFL will be selling their TV rights to Channel 31 for a six pack and a packet of peanuts. :roll:


You forgot the set of steak knives, AGRO!!!! :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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AGRO wrote:
Another couple of qualifications for the World Cup Finals - and the AFL will be selling their TV rights to Channel 31 for a six pack and a packet of peanuts. :roll:


At least all 8 games will be on FTA!!! :lol:

That's the thing though, there is a "bigger picture" to Carlton's situation. The brand is being destroyed but as an extension to that, so is the AFL brand. If those !@#$%& want to keep spruiking crowd and rating figures, then you need to have the big clubs riding the normal cycles between fighting for flags and rebuilding. Not placed in exile!

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 Post subject: Re: The Super Tanker
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:15 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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molsey wrote:
Last year's list decisions and this year's team selections make no sense. We all know that.

The only logical explanation is that we are tanking big time. And not just any tank. Consider:

* this year's superdraft
* many discussions with the AFL for rule bending / precedent setting which we require some level of sympathy
* we have few injuries so we can't just dump good players, we have to play them out of position

It is clear that we need to lose, but do so without showing our hand at having too many young stars come through at the same time. To do so would be to limit the sympathy we would get from the AFl re: finances and re: these rumoured PP Discussions.

Think of it - is it worth $1m this year (the AFL grant or loan) to lose like that? Is it worth an extra pick at the start of the second round to lose like that?

Therefore, its not just any tank. It's the supertank. The Achilles Laurot (?) of the footy world.

That's my belief and that's what I need to get me through 2006.


Mols, had similar thoughts last year. Called it the Inverted Tank http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... torder=asc

Super Tanker is much catchier. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:29 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Priceless Marciblue:


Quote:
If those !@#$%& want to keep spruiking crowd and rating figures, then you need to have the big clubs riding the normal cycles between fighting for flags and rebuilding. Not placed in exile!


What has the AFL done to deserve this?

1. Withdrew support of Optus Oval for The Dome: $25M & $1.8M pa

2. $1M penalty for salary cap breach: Essendon* & Melbourne got off for same. Other clubs not pursued as promised. Bris & Syd salary cap set much higher.

3. Draft Penalties: 2 years out of the 1st 2 rounds as aging list retires

4. Changes rules from 20-16 pts to the PP at the next draft: Quick fix solution for St Kilda and Doggies served its purpose.

5. Leaves Carlton with the entire MC Labour Park costs and gives nothing for access to use the ground

6. Failed to adequately renumerate for move to Telstra Dome.

7. Its tribunal hands out suspensions to Carlton yet allows others to get off for the same type of charge.

8. After completing audits has left the club to flounder without a result.

9. AFL sponsorships have dried the poolof corporate sponsors for football clubs.

10. Offer of $200K redistribution when it has $1.4 Billion in the bank.

There's heaps more. Please feel free to add to list.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Dan Brown eat your heart out. The incription in this message will need a super computer to crack :lol:

B oard members
R ealise that
Y outh is the future for
C arlton Football Club,
E ven if we are

G oing to tank, we need to
I ncorporate development of the young
B oys to bring them forward but still
B enefit from the
S uperdraft

E very effort
S hould be made to
S lip below
E ssendon and
N egate Sheedy's
D odgy tactics aimed at the Dons
O btaining the
N umber one draft pick


T o move forward, we must be
A ware that
N o amount of pleading or
K ow tow-ing will appease the AFL

N ot
O ne more
W in for 06

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Busy up north NT?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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bondiblue wrote:
4. Changes rules from 20-16 pts to the PP at the next draft: Quick fix solution for St Kilda and Doggies served its purpose.



This is the one that sticks in my craw the most (craw not craw :lol: - couldnt resist that one Chief).

This is essentially another year of quasi-draft penalty for us - as that !@#$%& Demetrispew reckons we got off lightly on Black Friday. :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:15 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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woof wrote:
JuzzCarlton wrote:
Synbad wrote:
What was our third win for the season that year and how did that impact your life??

How does drafting players impact on your life? :roll:
Quote:
Who did we draft at number 1 last year??

Is this relevant to winning 10 games in 2004?

Completely separate issues.


You will remember Marc Murphy for a long time.

You can't remember our 3rd win in 2004 and probably enjoyed until we lost the following week. Not a very long time.

They are related.

Bulltish!

I'll remember those against the odds win if not more than drafting a kid that isn't guaranteed to make it. It's crap to say you'd give up 5 wins just so we get another early selection in the top ten to go with pick 9.

I wasn't barracking for draft picks in 2004 and neither were you! :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I bet you dont even remember what you had for breakfast....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:41 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Humble pie, want some?

Or are you still a flea on a powerbroker's bum looking for a drop of blood? :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:53 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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I hate the idea of tanking. :twisted:

But if it gets Molsey through then conspiracy theories are alive and well.

next thing some one is going to say that DP was involved in september/11 :garthp:

Unfortunately I think we are just paying for Big Jacks selfish crap and we will for some time.

The AFL has hurt the fans and the club. Thet havent touched Elliot.

GRRRR!!!! :twisted:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:55 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

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AGRO wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
4. Changes rules from 20-16 pts to the PP at the next draft: Quick fix solution for St Kilda and Doggies served its purpose.



This is the one that sticks in my craw the most (craw not craw :lol: - couldnt resist that one Chief).

This is essentially another year of quasi-draft penalty for us - as that !@#$%& Demetrispew reckons we got off lightly on Black Friday. :roll:


Agree. But why didn;t we argue this AT THE TIME and create a bug fuss and lobby for the rule to be either 18 points, or for the first year of the new rule to incorporate the < 20 for 2005, < 16 for 2006 and < 16 for the future.

We would have had a good argument then. But we sat on our hands and now have no way to change it.

And we whinge about it now. The horse has bolted

PATHETIC from our board at the time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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JuzzCarlton wrote:
Humble pie, want some?

Or are you still a flea on a powerbroker's bum looking for a drop of blood? :lol:

if i was a flea up a powerbrokers bum id find you.... fried up on a sheeps fur... with flies whizzing around for a feast... :wink:
but im not... and youre hung out to dry ...

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