I appreciate what you're saying, Agro - and I've read it a hundred times (no disrespect intended).

Ok - so PP this year
2007 - do we need to finish last again to cover our shitful list?
2008 - it's bad to finish mid-table so where is best? Top four - doubtful? Bottom four?

Do you get me? It seems Synbad proposes the following finishes: 16, 16, 16, 15, 1

When in actuality (I guess!) it will be more like: 16, 14, 11, 8, 6, 3, 1 (or some such thing)

If Synbad and others hate finishing mid-table, only want the early picks, see finishing bottom eight as bad for recruiting - WHEN ARE WE ALLOWED TO WIN A GAME???

Sigh

I'm being pedantic, I know.

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"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."

@#$%&! me - now Carlton God's in on it. And he's yelling.

I ... understand ... the ... AFL ... system. I realise it is not rocket science.

You make a fair point - when the players are good enough - we'll start winning again. All I wanted was a proposed ladder position for the next five years. One that allows us to draft, recruit and develop these gun players into a winning premiership team. See that way I'll know what we're in for and I can adjust my expectations accordingly. What's the point in having pleasure in sport, after all?

See, you don't go from 16th or 15th to first (unless you're Collingwood). It's going to be a GRAD-U-AL climb up the ladder. I just hope you don't get upset if we finish 10th or 11th or (HORRORS) ninth in our GRAD-U-AL climb up the ladder over the next five years

Sheesh, you guys think you're the only ones who can work out how this shit is. IT'S @#$%&! OBVIOUS TO ALL OF US that we should lose for as long as it takes to get a winning team. BUT THAT'S NOT THE REALITY OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

Unless we're really, really, really, really shit

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"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."

I go an watch my now 13 year old play football every Sunday afternoon - far more pleasurable experience (dont worry all the family still buys Carlton Memberships).


The umpires even in the RDJFL are still a bunch of white maggots though.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

The basic premise of this post doesn't work. If you want to get your low draft picks, that still doesn't guarantee A grade players. It assumes that every first round pick will become an A grade player.



Where was Walker taken in the draft again? That's right, no. 2 - WHERE YOU SAY THE ELITE PLAYERS ARE!

We need more talent, yes, by all means, but high draft picks do not guarantee you anything.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

The right type of development helps a little too

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There's so much I could say...

Carlton God lost me at hello.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Who does he play for Agro? Jack's playing under 13's for Ivanhoe.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

FFS the kid has just turned 20, give him a go, maybe in a few of years when he is 24 then we can judge him, but atm he would be close to our top 5 in the b & f this year and is busting his guts for us, imo i would love to see him as captain,

Well put Carlton Clem. There are no guarantees.

I've done a basic analysis of our list to try and determine who will be gone years end 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 (natural attrition based on age and ability) without considering any trades for draft picks to try and establish of those on our list, their age, their stage of development and time they will need to established themselves as strong bodied senior players.

In this analysis I have assumed we will end up 15th or 16th in 2006, giving us 3 quality players from about 6, and finishing 15th-12th in 2007, giving us at least 2 quality kids from another 6 picks.

With respect to those ommitted, at the end of that period from our current list, the only certainties imo, based on age and ability and potential to improve are: forwards Fevola, Waite (FS), Fisher, and Kennedy (pick 4) with Setanta as a wild card; Thornton, Carazzo, Russell(pick 9) with Hartlett (pick 20) and Bower (pick 20) the wild cards; midfielders Stevens, Walker (pick 2), Murphy (pick 1) and Simpson, the wild card. Note, notwithstanding trades, Houla, Betts, Bentick, DeLuca remain with wild cards Flint, Blackwell (FS), Edwards, Aisake, Batson, Jackson and Smith. To put wild cards in context they are my rising stars (could be anything, and have shown/have something that may fill a gap)

If we look at this group, the first thing you notice is that most are in their teens and early 20's; In today's terms av age 21.5 yo. This implies that of theses 25 guys the majority should be more than the players they are today, in fact some are or have the potential to be A Graders (Robert Harvey wasn't an A grader when he started, as was the case with most of today's A Graders), so that's how you should judge them today. Now add 4 quality kids to the list end 2006, and 2 end 2007, and by 2008-9 these kids are have the promise of an amazing outfit. There are no guarantees.

Given we will finish 15th or 16th in 2006, we will get the 4 good kids from the superdraft, and the two kids from 2007 don't have to be picks 1,2,3,4 or 5 to ensure quality. Tanking is not necassary in 2007 as we wont need to unless you think we'll be knocking on the door of the 8 (I wish), but a winning culture is what we've got to get back to this club, and you'll then see, the members return, the sponsors knocking on the door, the new facilities rise from the floor, and the return of our bragging rights as the baby blues we have today make their surge for finals and premierships.

I understand where the tankers are coming from in 2007; they're looking to fast track this process. I'm a bit either way. It's a fine balance, when we look at all the ingredients that make success. From where we sit today the definition of success is not a premiership in my books. Give me my bragging rights, and lets play finals footy.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I'd take finishing thirteenth with 6 wins this season if the wins were due to Kennedy, Hartlett, Russell, Murphy, etc. all standing up and playing well. In the right circumstances wins can't be labelled meaningless just because they've cost you a draft pick.

If Sporn, Prenda, Livo and McGrath stood up and played well would you still take them?

I don't believe in fairy tales or Mrs K.

Bit north of there Danny.

RDFL (Riddell District Junior Football League).

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

get it

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Clem you are just arguing for the point of arguing now. I guess when you try so hard to fit in around here just bleating out time after time whatever the sheep say your reply doesn't really surprise me at all.

If Walker wasn't on our list, a player who can develop into a solid B grade player, we probably would have had some gump who Cazesman raves about week after week in the VFL, that he is oh so sure will make it, and probably would have been delisted by now. Oh but hang on you lot would have preferred to have won 6 games in 2003 and missed out on having Walker all together. Not every low draft pick will become an A grade player, but you have to be in it to win it.

How many of you would like Essendon* to win only 4 games for the next two years??? That would mean they will have picks 1,17,19 in this draft and picks 1,2,18 in the next draft?? Or would you prefer them to win 6 games for the next two years only getting picks 2,18 and 2,18. It's a bit different when you look at it from a different perspective isn't it??? I'm sure there isn't ONE of you that would wish Essendon* won 4 games for the next two years yet you all want us to win 6 or 7???

Carlton God

Yeah sure you have to be in it to win it, but what happens if you pick 4 B-grade players? You're back to where you started.

The mistake happened in 2004 when we won 10 games. We should have had a Deledio or a Griffen and maybe a Roughead or Franklin.,

Really you're not being very original anyway. Synbad was advocating something like this back in 2004, you're just 2 years too late.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

What a bad thing it would be to have four B grade players? As opposed to what? Four VFL duds taken at pick 70?? Wow your plan is so much better.



The mistake happened in 2004? What do you mean? We won 10 games YIPPEE. I thought that is what you lot wanted?? Wasn’t the plan top 8 in 2005 then top 4 in 2006?? Weren’t David Teague and Ian Prendergast going to lead us to premiership glory??

How come in 2006 you can look back on 2004 and say what a mistake it was? Don’t you think in 2008 you will be looking back on 2006 and saying what a mistake it was winning 6 games??



No Clem, I have been arguing this point since 2002. I guess that was when I first truly realised how dumb Carlton supporters were when the best two under 18’s in the country were there to be taken and you lot wanted to win a couple of extra games to avoid the wooden spoon because Carlton supporters, like the club, were stuck in the dark ages. I used to argue until I was blue in the face, a bit like Synbad does now, but one day it just dawned on me that dumb people stick together because they are dumb and there is safety in numbers. Four years on not much has changed around here.

I’ve seen them come and go from here, Paganite03 for example, what an idiot with his fancy diagrams who is probably still convinced Pagan is the messiah and a premiership beckons next year. The sheep would time after time say how great he was eventhough no one could even understand what he was saying – by their own admission. I don’t even waste my time anymore posting on these boards because supporters are dumb, like you, and just bleat out whatever the masses are saying thinking they are a ‘true supporter’.

Lets be honest Clem, if dannyboy, Cazesman, Deano Supreme etc were all bleating out how important it would be to tank you would be on the wagon as well. You try so hard to go with the masses on here because you are so insecure with what you think you know about football and don't want to be caught out. Myself on the other hand just call it how I see it. If I don’t agree with something the club is doing I say it. You on the other hand cannot and will not make the hard decisions - you should be on our current board, they can't make a hard decision either!

Clem, one day you will astound us all by coming out with something that is daring and scary on the surface, but best of all, well thought out. When that day does arrive, I will be quite pleased that you will have finally had the guts to break the shackles and think for yourself. Until that day comes, you leave the serious footy talk and progressive ideas to me. You just keep backing up whichever sheep is bleating the loudest at the time.

Yours In Footballing Excellence
I Am And Always Will Be,
Carlton God

Take of your shoes this is holy ground.


Excuse me while I go outside and put out a fire in my Rhodadendron.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Or commercial lawyers.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Why don't you actually do that.