Kouta should have given them both a kick up the arse.

What our senior players have needed was one of their peers getting stuck into them instead of Pagan ... The players dont respect Pagan...

Kouta should have been harder at marshalling the troops .. it would have stopped us from being as much a rabble as we have been/are.

All of them were capable of effort.

There has been many a time that they just gave up the ghost... much to the humiliation of this clubs history (Joga Bonitos cue)

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Wasn't Carrazzo dropped for flying to Sydney midweek? Should Kouta get the same treatment?

It was interesting hearing Mick Malthouse talking the other day about how the senior players held the club together during the Pies recent lean run. Malthouse said there was far less pressure on everyone because the core group of senior players had kept everyone focused.

Mick might have been out of a job by now if he'd had a bunch like Kouta, Campo, Ratten, Beaumont, Manton, Murphy, Allan and co. as his senior group.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

That is exactly why i cant stand the senior group of players arpund our club.
Over 4 or 5 years it was bitching an moaning and "me" "me " "me"... little snide remarks about the coach and abouyt the club...
None of them did the real hard thing and knuckle down... they all took the easy option... (GO MISSING).. just a total lack of pride and a total negligence towards the kids coming through the system allowed to do it all on the own as the rats deserted the ship.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Do you think that the whole lack of leadership stems from the 1995 Premiership Team, when Parkin gave the players full control of the season and their destiny that they then seemed to lose all respect for the position of coach?

Brittain, as I understand it, was in total awe of the players and would allow them incredible free reign to train on their own time and pretty much do whatever it is that they wanted to do.

Then Elliot gave them the keys to the kingdom with fat contracts.

I'm not sure if I am explaining myself properly but I feel that around 1995/1996 that the leadership wheels fell off.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

I think you can over anlyze these things. It's not as simple as comparing one team to another. When you're losing 4 in 5 games for 5 years the moral has to be rock bottom, and when that happens you get stress fractures in the group. Like a company going into the red - everyone from the top to the shit kicker has got the shits until the company finally sinks.

Look at Brisbane - it didn't take them long to start sticking the knives in, now suddenly they're getting back on track because they've had some wins.

Give me wins and I'll give you a happy group with everyone respecting everyone. To get the wins we need the cattle, simple as that.

Anyway, my point is Elliott and Parkin let the squad deteriorate from '95-96 and the market made every top player demand massive dollars - our problem was we had too many top players and that cost us dearly.

See how happy our boys will be in 2-3 years when we're playing in September.

Brisbane have wins because they have players that take them 'there'.. we have players that take us 'there' too.. but its a different 'there'.. its a 'there' that is not about selflesness or profesisonalism...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Player empowerment is fine when you have self-starters of the quality of Kernahan, Bradley, Williams, Silvagni etc. They were already showing great leadership and Parkin just let them have a little more. The problems began when those guys started to retire and the next group coming through were given (and expected) the same sort of latitude.

There's no problem with a player of Diesel's genius picking and choosing his training regimen in order to prolong his career with a deteriorating body. You know he'll do absolutely everything in his power to be as good as he possibly can be.

When a guy like Scott Camporeale is given (or expects) that sort of latitude you're asking for trouble.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Was at training today running laps.

Who was at training?

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Blue World by the sound of it...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

i dont know if this is relevant but when brittain was our coach i went to attend training 4 or 5 times. every time i went brittain wasnt out there, the players were just there training by themselves, in fairness to brits, i only stayed between half an hour to 1 hour everytime i went and i only went 4 or 5 times for the whole time he was coach but i found it was a big coincidence that evertime i went brits wasnt out there on the field.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total