Graham Smorgon hits back

Ryan, are you really Graham Smorgon?

Why should anyone expect him to put his own money in?

Reasonable response from Graham.

No question a number of other Clubs keen to keep putting the boot in, with the help of a cooperative media, as opposed to the Collingwood and Sheedy media free rides.

David Smorgon full well knows that Blues have far greater support base than his own Club and a couple of other Clubs, and there is therefore good justification for rendering assistance under different terms.

Why shouldn't we, if we get Bryce Gibbs this year, play Port Adelaide & Adelaide once per year as home games at the Adelaide Oval & be a third option for S.A. footy supporters.
Play 2 extra 'away' games in Melbourne as designated Carlton member games (Brizzyblue could come up with a season fixture ).
Adelaide have 50,000 members. Surely we could direct a bit of the future flow to us if we play our cards right there.

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There's so much I could say...

HaHa........no, i'm just simply a guy who knows to do his research before making a statement. Something David Smorgan and some other flower personalities out there (be it in the AFL or the Media) should learn to do.

This move (to the Telstra Dome), despite the fact it has cost us a drop in memberships and profits from games such a Carlton Vs Port or Freo (which would have MADE us money had they been played at Optus rather than the Dome / MCG)..............in the long term it will help make us financially stable.

So before David makes another dumb shit comment in an attempt to make himself seem 'Smart', he should perhaps think for a moment before just blurting out words.

Sell our games............HA!..................We've technically sold ALL OUR @#$%&! GAMES DAVID!

But......................................

If we were to sell some home games.............say 3 games per year...............just for 3 years............it could see us netting upwards of $1million per year, whilst quite possibly earning us some interstate members in the process.

Cancelling out the likes of Tasmania / Canberra & Queensland, the next two most appealing places are Perth & Sydney.

The Bulldogs sold a home game last year to Sydney which attracted a 'mediocre' crowd. I'm not sure how much they recieved from it, but i'm sure they netted themselves a nice profit.

But, in Sydney, your also competing with the NRL which plays a few games per weekend.

Whereas in Perthm, the #1 AND Arguably the only football code there is AFL.
Subiaco can get upwards of 40,000 anytime and we have proven to have have a massive fan base on that side of Australia.

In fact, i went to Perth for the weekend which just happend to be the week after we lost to West Coast. I was shocked at how many people were still complaining that Carlton lost.
It's funny cause it's like if you don't go For West Coast or Freo, Carlton is the next team!

I'm sure (even though i'm not yet sold on the idea of selling home games) that if we sold 2 home games a year to WA playing both Freo & West Coast twice at Subi we could net ourselves EASY $1million per year.

Playing 4 games in Perth (if we play West Coast & Freo twice each in the season) could also create opportunities to sell some interstate Membership packages which could see us breaking the 35,000 members total.

Travelling to WA 4 times per year can be tough. But on the upside we are a developing team and if the kids get used to it at a young age then 3 or 4 years down the track it wont seem like such a burdon?????

I dunno...............i'm just thinking out aloud i guess.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

No Carlton home games interstate!!!! NEVER!!

It is something that every club that has done it wishes they didn't have to. They do it when they're shit and don;t care about results - then their playing list improves and they lamnent the fact that they're decreasing their chance of winning.

We don;t care about results now cos we half want to lose, but in a number of years when we're fighting for a top 4 spot and our finances are back on track, travelling to subi 4 times will seem like self-mutilation.

ANd to those saying that we can "just do it for 3 years" - Once you're in and depending on that money, it's very hard to get out. Look at St. Kilda trying to extricate themselves from Tassie - it's not easy.


ALL CARLTON HOME GAMES IN MELBOURNE FOREVER

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

That second interview was a @#$%&! ignorant, uninformed lynching of Carlton. How do those idiots get away wioth that!

If political commmentary was that factually innacurate - the proponents would be sacked.

Can;t believe they had the gall to compare our recent plight with some other clubs - we had debts larger than what those other clubs were worth for chrissakes.

At least they still hate us - means we're doing something right.

Gimme 3 or 4 years - the dark navies are coming you flower, and boy will we let em know

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

Here's a thought: Why don't we BUY a home game from a financially struggling club and offer 12 home games to our current and potential membership base?

I know we're in short-term financial strife, but I'm buggered if I see how acting like beggars is going to help us long-term.

When you're up against it, that's precisely the moment not to lose your nerve. It's when you become even more aggressive and ever more clever.

Selling home games for a quick buck will only serve to tarnish us with the beggars brush for at least a decade, and stall our rise to the top.

Who'd want to be associated with a club so bereft of money or ideas that they have to sell their only saleable asset?

No, no and no.

Lets not get arrogance confused with the facts.

The Dogs, Nth etc have a structural issue of lack of supporters that is unchanged no matter their performance. Therefore they need to develop other income streams. Playing interstate is a long term strategy for them, it would never be more than a one off / ad hoc strategy for us.

Our support is still pretty good despite 5 lean years. We got 34,000 last week to the Nth game - Essendon* got 33,000 last night. We are closer to ending our pain than they are, it will be interesting to see their crowds and membership and 2 - 3 years time.

In 3 - 4 years time the biggest source of annoyance on this board will be the costs of reserved seats at Telstra Dome, because we will all be needing them - demand will be high.

To go and play in front of 10,000 people at AFL outposts where sirens don't work just has loser written all over it.

I think our leverage is in WA - set up the away games as huge events - attract a match day sponsor. I have previously mentioned ANZAC Day, but there could be other opportunities. I can't think of too many annual traditional events that are staged in WA. (someone else mentioned WA- I think selling home games there is too much, but sound line of thinking given our support there)

All these idiots in the media are incapable of independant thought, they are just a pack of sheep with long standing anti Carlton agendas (see what AGRO has had to say about Tom Prior ex Herald sun in other posts). Why haven't we heard these questions asked:

1. Why is John Elliott still a LIFE MEMBER of the AFL an organisation he apparently set out to cheat in such a deliberate way? The same might apply to SOS and Bradley, but how are they to know where the money is coming from?

2. Why are players (let use Kade Simpson as an example - what is his winning ratio? when will it get better?) being so severely punished for something they had nothing to do with?

3. How would you feel if your son was drafted to Carlton? You only get one career why should an 18 year old be put at such a career disadvantage?

Question 3 becomes less relevant each year, but gee how much has Andrew Walker been through due to the mismanagement and deceit of a group of people and the hell bent desire of other people to destroy them, all the while urged on by a media without the ability to objectively analyse and comment upon a situation.

I'm still #%&*ing angry!!

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Get comfortable being uncomfortable

I heard Mark Stevens the author of the Herald Sun article on SEN this morning with, Liam Pickering and Mark Allen. He is clearly one of the media types who is intent on kicking the Blues now they are struggling. Not for the first time I heard him say that the reason we should not get any help is because we were fined close to $1 Millions, a few years back and it would be like giving the money back with interest. What a great reason not to help the club, clearly he'd rather see us go the way of Fitzroy.

It's a classic that early this year the media carried on when Pagan bought the draft penalties up as a reason for us still struggling. And here is this tool telling us we shouldn't get any financial help because we paid a massive fine a few years back.

What is also annoying is they are all speculating with out knowing what form the help will take. I maybe wrong, but my memory is that we have cash flow problems, that we would like our annual dividend paid in advance (the equivilent to asking for an advance on your allowance from your parents). I also know we are trying to get the AFL to takeover the lease on Princes Park - because of a 30 year agreement we have with the Melbourne City Council to rent the ground to play games their - games the AFL basically said we could no longer play their.

As far as I can tell this is not the same deal that the Roos, Dogs and Dees are getting, they are basically taking a handout each year to keep operating. As David Smorgan says you have to have a traditionally poor membership base and poor stadium deal, which apparently we don't have to qualify (you could argue about the stadium deal, I reckon).

I'm not sure why the AFL should prop up these clubs, but not help a club that until recent years always contributed to the AFL coffers by drawing big crowds, selling merchandise, etc. Carlton like the other big Melbourne clubs have been generating the money the AFL uses to help these other clubs, aren't we entitled to take a little back when we fall on bad times?

As the Steven's points out:
"It would also be an enormous marketing tool for the AFL to have a traditionally strong club playing games in emerging markets."
The AFL has always used us to make money for them because of our popularity and success, why shouldn't they help us now?

We were just bailed out by the AFL.

Think about Fitzory/Swans supporters.

Look.. were shit!!!... the AFL have given us money that doesnt really have a precedent.

Why shouldnt other clubs question this???

Were becoming a club thats asking for free bees (money picks)...
WE have to with the support we have be capable of standing on our own two feet and making HARD CHOICES for picks... and selling hard for money.

Weree a joke!

And if Smorgon (David) has to try to turn it into a circus in the papers....(and its not an issue with the wider footy community)..
Why does Smorgon (Graeme) HAVE TO answer via the media... ????(and turn a bullshit story from a one day article into a 2 day newspaper article and give it legs???

How stupid is this bloke????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Not stupid at all Synbad.

Why wouldn't he want to set the record straight? If the public perception is that we don't deserve any help, why wouldn't he want to change that?

The media only panders to the public debate - that's how clowns like Stevens and Mitho get a job. No respectable outlet would have them, but someone struggling for mainstream ratings might. Why not try to have the media work for ourselves - or at the very least win a few swinging voters? Eddie used to do it beautifully with Channel 9 and MMM. He'd lose his cool occaisionally, but usually, he was tactful.

I suggest we all read Robert Heatley's post again and take note that we shouldn't be taking this pounding lying down. That was the one thing Jack was good at - striking while the iron was hot and discrediting some of the uninformed public opinions.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

What do you mean "the record straight"??

For the record were receiving 1.5 million in a way different to any other AFL club and the other AFL clubs have to foot the bill.

"We left Optus"... thats ridiculous...

The Dogs left Windy hill...
Tigers left Punt Road...

So what.. we left the last century and joined everybody else into this century.

the problem with putting this record straight is 1) most people dont care so why bring up the embarassment to us again??and make it a bigger story than its short legs have.
Did anyone say to you.. Why did you get money and not have to go interstate???

Smorgon is so small minded and has no clue about the media.

The media thrives on bullshit stories.

The public doesnt care about this story.. the clubs at an official level might.. so if DS takes it to the public and the public doesnt care.. why would you throw fuel to the fire and compound a non story.. and turn it into a story and negativity via the media who just feed off this bullshit because they dont have stories.

I bet there are more football journalists in Melbourne than political journalists... they have to feed off garbage...!!!.. and were dumb enough to fall into the trap of feeding it to them...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Say nothing and take the money!!

Loose lips sink big ships.

Synbad wrote


Silence is a virtue. Say nothing and it will soon be forgotten, and when we are successful again, and whoever wants to bring up the $1.5M, we can have a laugh and point to our position on the ladder. Scoreboard.

Lets not forget the money is needed for cashflow reasons. We will still have a $7M debt with interest, and it has to be paid off. If selling a couple of games a year for 2 years gives us $2M, then no doubt we would be better off, and we must make some sacrifices to get us out of the red whilst we're developing a great team, and not when we are a great team.

Moving home games to WA or SA is logical in the short term. Carlton support there does not translate memberships today. The more we play there the better chance we have at attracting more members...which equals more dollars...equals better coaching personnel...equals better players...equals success...equals a bigger better brand.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Youre now taking every available opportunity to put the boots into Smorgon. This time its grossly unjustified.
If he didnt say anything, you would've called him 'weak' and not putting the position of the club forward.

What position???

The money was given.. stiff titties to the other clubs...the public didnt care.. why turn it into an intra family circus???

Thats just plain stupidity!!
Whats more stupidity is saying we dont have to play interstate cos we shifted our home ground....

Thats just like 2 kids on a web site .. like me and verbs..wanting to up the post count....

Except he is the president....

Hes a numb skull...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

im sick of people saying that we dont deserve the special assistance fund because we made bad board decisions. well, if clubs like bulldogs and kangaroos had made good board decisions 70 years ago they wouldnt be in the position they are now. they're supporters will no doubt say na but that was 70 years ago what can we do? its exactly the same position we're in we made bad board decisions about 10 years ago and now the new board has to put up with the old board's poor decision making.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

Just listened to Tony " i wanna be just like my hero Eddie McGuire" Jones. He must of got out of the wrong side of bed. He listed them all - our 15% drop in membership, our drop in crowds, the fact we are no longer a football powerhouse, the AFL doesn't need us to be successful (he incl Rich and Ess as well).

Excuse me for a minute but what about Collingwoods drop in membership this year and they have been flying, what about Collingwoods free ride on national TV, The AFL survived OK the last 2 years and Collingwood were shit.

Tony Jones is a big fat slob bordering on being a turd who needs his lights put out. Oh and what was that comment you heard from the umpire last year on the plane dimwit?

Not really into this topic but wanted to take the opportunity to slag Tony Jones as well. He is the most annoying person on TV by far. Looks like someone who has been let into the big boys gang at school and can't stop smirking about it. I hope channel nine have to sack more people and he is at the top of the list.

TONY YOU ARE NOT FUNNY!!!

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

If the AFL wants to turn Melbourne into a one team town a la the A-League then let them go right ahead.

I am sure its on "The Spews" drawing board - hmm world's best practice, NFL in the USA one team town model - yeah thats it - "cmon 'Chester' and 'Benny the Ball' implement that will you and pronto."

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Tony Jones = smug, arrogant jerk who acts like he's in an exclusive boy's club.

Which pretty much makes him a perfect fit for Channel 9.