I need help….

budzy · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 am **Posts:** 8128

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg= ... eid=280505

â€¦.understanding the following DP quote.

[quote]"We pick our best side every week. We try to develop our kids. We don't play the kids, we try to develop them -- there's a distinct difference.â€

camel · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:47 am

The odd, while somewhat pleasing part when thinking long term, is that many times this year if we have been smashed it's our kids who have been our better performers and the ones who have been able to hold their heads high as they trudge off the ground.

Sure they might make some skill errors and so on, but they are in there at the coal face having a bloody red hot go!

dannyboy · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:58 am

I referring to this idea weeks ago. The thinking is that to repair player faults/develop other aspects of their game you need to play a footballer at a level that allows them to try the things you want them to work on, to have the time and space (as it were) to develop those aspects you are concerned with. Playing them in the AFL means they may just be playing for their survival (no time to develop) or might believe they have no need to work on things (they've already made it). Educationally it makes some valid points. Maslow's heirarchy fits this model. However accelerated learning models would argue against it.

Applied to every player would be a mistake but making this judgment is no biggie for me. But it is only 1 aspect. The other is that this club needs to start selling itself now (play the kids) for next year.

bluehammer · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:05 am

camelboy wrote:

The odd, while somewhat pleasing part when thinking long term, is that many times this year if we have been smashed it's our kids who have been our better performers and the ones who have been able to hold their heads high as they trudge off the ground.

Sure they might make some skill errors and so on, but they are in there at the coal face having a bloody red hot go!

Yeah but Camel, the senior players get the best taggers every weekâ„¢

budzy · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:17 am **Posts:** 8128

dannyboy wrote:

I referring to this idea weeks ago. The thinking is that to repair player faults/develop other aspects of their game you need to play a footballer at a level that allows them to try the things you want them to work on, to have the time and space (as it were) to develop those aspects you are concerned with. Playing them in the AFL means they may just be playing for their survival (no time to develop) or might believe they have no need to work on things (they've already made it). Educationally it makes some valid points. Maslow's heirarchy fits this model. However accelerated learning models would argue against it.

Id've thought that developing/adapting to the faster AFL tempo was up at the top of the list of importance?
How can they develop/adapt the the tempo when 'developing' in the VFL or on the pine?
I don't get it.

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

Budzy my intepretation of DP quotes are as follows and it does not mean I endorse what he says:

Player Development: Andrew Walker as part of his development was used to tag gun players such as Akermanis and be accountable. He sacrificed his game to minimise the damage Akermanis could create and in the process perhaps learn about the amount of running required and postioning that makes AKA so good. On the other hand Denis could have played him against Akermanis head to head, Aka might of got 30 possession and kicked 4 goals and Andrew Walkwer might have got 15 possessions and been none the wiser.

In relation to his line of thinking with the 24-25 y.o. or players who have been at the club for 4-5 years and have not progressed the only player that can back up this statement is Simon Wiggins. He wants to give them another chance in the hope that they can string some games together in the hope that they turn the corner.

camel · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:42 am

bluehammer wrote:

camelboy wrote:

The odd, while somewhat pleasing part when thinking long term, is that many times this year if we have been smashed it's our kids who have been our better performers and the ones who have been able to hold their heads high as they trudge off the ground.

Sure they might make some skill errors and so on, but they are in there at the coal face having a bloody red hot go!

Yeah but Camel, the senior players get the best taggers every weekâ„¢

Haha, yeah â€¦ of course. How silly of me to forget that.

The Duke · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:25 am

woof wrote:

In relation to his line of thinking with the 24-25 y.o. or players who have been at the club for 4-5 years and have not progressed the only player that can back up this statement is Simon Wiggins. He wants to give them another chance in the hope that they can string some games together in the hope that they turn the corner.

This is a very important point. If we can find 3-4 of these types of players that are already on the list, we'll be in a much better position in 2-3 years when the younger blokes develop like waite and Fish. If not, it'll be another couple of years for them to be the next 26+yo generation.

I think Wiggins is a good example, but sadly I reckon Prenda, teague, Sporn etc. won't make the cut. I still hold hope for Bannister and Livo, but only just.

Let's give them 1 last go and then cut deep to use the super draft this year. - the kids aint going anywhere.

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18082

And what happens if Prender comes in and goes OK? Nothing spectacular but holds his spot......and Teague.....and Sporn.

Do you then retain them?
These guys have had 6 or 7 pre seasons behind them and they cant hold a place in the worst team over the past 5 years.

What will this week tell you about Prender that the last 8 pre seasons have"nt?

I'll tell Denis if he doesnt know. Prender is a great bloke with a good motor for his size. He doesnt have the balance to play Key position as he is pushed off the ball far too easy.
He cant successfully play ruck as he is too short and cant hold his feet at throw ins. He cant find the ball as a midfielder and his footskills are terrible.
If Denis doesnt know that now, he never will.

The Carlton Football Club doesnt owe Prender a game.

As for Jesse Smith, his lacks a yard of pace but goes hard at the pill.
His footskills are reasonable and he runs hard to involve himself and to create a link.
Can he play senior AFL? I dont know.

There's far more to find out about Jesse Smith than Prender.
Yet Prender gets the gig.

mojo31 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 5:31 pm **Posts:** 351

The Duke wrote:

woof wrote:

In relation to his line of thinking with the 24-25 y.o. or players who have been at the club for 4-5 years and have not progressed the only player that can back up this statement is Simon Wiggins. He wants to give them another chance in the hope that they can string some games together in the hope that they turn the corner.

This is a very important point. If we can find 3-4 of these types of players that are already on the list, we'll be in a much better position in 2-3 years when the younger blokes develop like waite and Fish. If not, it'll be another couple of years for them to be the next 26+yo generation.

I think Wiggins is a good example, but sadly I reckon Prenda, teague, Sporn etc. won't make the cut. I still hold hope for Bannister and Livo, but only just.

Let's give them 1 last go and then cut deep to use the super draft this year. - the kids aint going anywhere.

Wiggins and Bannister have a bit of speed. They did not use the ball or get the ball enough previously. Teague/Prenda and Sporn (through injuries) dont have any real toe. They also dont use the ball well or get enough of it.
But at least Bannister has the speed to cover someome down back.
Wiggins has the speed and motor to play as a medium leading forward who pushed up into the midfield and provides a link between the HB line and HF line.

Bannister has improved his disposal and so has Wiggins but at least they had that bit of toe to be perservered with. I dont see any redeeming features of the other 3. They are 1 paced and lacking in skills and we cant use them in roles like Bannister and Wiggo have because they will be burnt on the lead with there lack of leg speed.

Anyone with any speed we have in our team now apart from Chambers.

ryan2000 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:23 pm

I know what you mean Mojo.

My bet is that Sentanta is gonna be left out this week which completely pisses me off when guys like McGrath stay in the side.

Chambers

Sporn
Prenda
Teauge
Livo
McGrath
and to a lesser extent Houlihan (and some others) have been given more than a fair share of chances to proove their worth to the club, and they have given nothing in return.

Hopefully all of those players get delisted at seasons end to FINALLY create some opportunities for players who actually want to be part of our future.
I said the same thing about Wiggens last year......,but he has seriously looked at himself long and hard and decided he wants to give his all! His form in the past 5 games has proven that, ditto Bannister (whom i honestly think should have been playing in the seniors all along!)

Players like Houlihan/Prenda/Livo/Etc, etc, come into the side on the back of some good form in the VFL but never NEVER string a consistant flow of games together. It's like a revolving door for them. And they know this. They'll get dropped and be like "Ahhh, doesn't matter. I'll rack up 30 possesions for the Bullants and be right back in there!" Not @#$%&! good enough IMO!

Aggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! So Frustrating. I'm running out of teeth from grinding them so much thinking of our selected teams!

Anyways.....GO BLUES!

Walker to better he's skills this week.
Fevola to kick 5.
Blackwell or Kennedy (if they actually make it in the side) to earn a rising star nomination.
Fisher to kick 3 and take 10 marks.
Blues to win by 3 goals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come to think of it, We're going into this side with our most dominating Forward line since about round 5 or 6.

Fevola / Kennedy / Fisher

i reckon the can kick about 10 goals between them!

mojo31 · **Joined:** Sat May 20, 2006 5:31 pm **Posts:** 351

ryan2000 wrote:

I know what you mean Mojo.

My bet is that Sentanta is gonna be left out this week which completely pisses me off when guys like McGrath stay in the side.

Chambers

Sporn
Prenda
Teauge
Livo
McGrath
and to a lesser extent Houlihan (and some others) have been given more than a fair share of chances to proove their worth to the club, and they have given nothing in return.

Hopefully all of those players get delisted at seasons end to FINALLY create some opportunities for players who actually want to be part of our future.
I said the same thing about Wiggens last year......,but he has seriously looked at himself long and hard and decided he wants to give his all! His form in the past 5 games has proven that, ditto Bannister (whom i honestly think should have been playing in the seniors all along!)

Players like Houlihan/Prenda/Livo/Etc, etc, come into the side on the back of some good form in the VFL but never NEVER string a consistant flow of games together. It's like a revolving door for them. And they know this. They'll get dropped and be like "Ahhh, doesn't matter. I'll rack up 30 possesions for the Bullants and be right back in there!" Not F@%&#! good enough IMO!

Aggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! So Frustrating. I'm running out of teeth from grinding them so much thinking of our selected teams!

Anyways.....GO BLUES!

Walker to better he's skills this week.
Fevola to kick 5.
Blackwell or Kennedy (if they actually make it in the side) to earn a rising star nomination.
Fisher to kick 3 and take 10 marks.
Blues to win by 3 goals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come to think of it, We're going into this side with our most dominating Forward line since about round 5 or 6.

Fevola / Kennedy / Fisher

i reckon the can kick about 10 goals between them!

I like Kennedy. Just has something about him I really like. I dont really think if but when with him. Given a full pre season this year it would likely be now for him. But he is well behind where he would be without the shoulder op so its all a bit catch up for him.

But if he does not pull down a few marks early on then he will rot on the bench and that kills me. Must hurt him as well. Lets make him earn it and all that I am fed up of. Lets just let him slwoly develop in the 1s. 80 minutes a game. If he struggles then send him down back for an education as well.

Play Lance with him up forward for a bit and see how they work together.

Put him at FF for a quater or 2.

Develop him please.....

AGRO · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:31 pm

Nothing like a Bachelor of Football Education at Carlton - with a 5 year sub-major of forensic pine bench examination. :roll:

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

AGRO wrote:

Nothing like a Bachelor of Football Education at Carlton - with a 5 year sub-major of forensic pine bench examination. :roll:

If you want to enrol in this course the website is below:

www.getthesplintersoutofmyarse.com.au

The Duke · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:43 pm

Blue Vain wrote:

And what happens if Prender comes in and goes OK? Nothing spectacular but holds his spot......and Teague.....and Sporn.

Do you then retain them?
These guys have had 6 or 7 pre seasons behind them and they cant hold a place in the worst team over the past 5 years.

What will this week tell you about Prender that the last 8 pre seasons have"nt?

I'll tell Denis if he doesnt know. Prender is a great bloke with a good motor for his size. He doesnt have the balance to play Key position as he is pushed off the ball far too easy.
He cant successfully play ruck as he is too short and cant hold his feet at throw ins. He cant find the ball as a midfielder and his footskills are terrible.
If Denis doesnt know that now, he never will.

The Carlton Football Club doesnt owe Prender a game.

As for Jesse Smith, his lacks a yard of pace but goes hard at the pill.
His footskills are reasonable and he runs hard to involve himself and to create a link.
Can he play senior AFL? I dont know.

There's far more to find out about Jesse Smith than Prender.
Yet Prender gets the gig.

I think Prenda's paperwork has been signed and is sitting in the OUT tray.

Three to 4 players are a fete a compli for 2007 and if Jess D is up to it I'm sure they would elevate now or at the end of the year. The other 3 - 4 players will have 7 weeks to prove themselves as the 30th - 40th best players on the list. That's the positions they will be taking - not 20-30.

We will need at least a few mid 20s players with 50-100 games experience to use as depth (all be it very shallow) for the seniors, we need to know now who they will be.

I have no doubt we would be playing Hartlett, Bower, Kennedy and Murphy if they were fit and available. We can't help the fact that our youth has had a rotten run with injuries.

bluesinsider · **Posted:** Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:11 pm

Well Kennedy is IN this week, so lets hope he is given amle time to prove himself.

mojo31 wrote:

ryan2000 wrote:

I know what you mean Mojo.

My bet is that Sentanta is gonna be left out this week which completely pisses me off when guys like McGrath stay in the side.

Chambers

Sporn
Prenda
Teauge
Livo
McGrath
and to a lesser extent Houlihan (and some others) have been given more than a fair share of chances to proove their worth to the club, and they have given nothing in return.

Hopefully all of those players get delisted at seasons end to FINALLY create some opportunities for players who actually want to be part of our future.
I said the same thing about Wiggens last year......,but he has seriously looked at himself long and hard and decided he wants to give his all! His form in the past 5 games has proven that, ditto Bannister (whom i honestly think should have been playing in the seniors all along!)

Players like Houlihan/Prenda/Livo/Etc, etc, come into the side on the back of some good form in the VFL but never NEVER string a consistant flow of games together. It's like a revolving door for them. And they know this. They'll get dropped and be like "Ahhh, doesn't matter. I'll rack up 30 possesions for the Bullants and be right back in there!" Not F@%&#! good enough IMO!

Aggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! So Frustrating. I'm running out of teeth from grinding them so much thinking of our selected teams!

Anyways.....GO BLUES!

Walker to better he's skills this week.
Fevola to kick 5.
Blackwell or Kennedy (if they actually make it in the side) to earn a rising star nomination.
Fisher to kick 3 and take 10 marks.
Blues to win by 3 goals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come to think of it, We're going into this side with our most dominating Forward line since about round 5 or 6.

Fevola / Kennedy / Fisher

i reckon the can kick about 10 goals between them!

I like Kennedy. Just has something about him I really like. I dont really think if but when with him. Given a full pre season this year it would likely be now for him. But he is well behind where he would be without the shoulder op so its all a bit catch up for him.

But if he does not pull down a few marks early on then he will rot on the bench and that kills me. Must hurt him as well. Lets make him earn it and all that I am fed up of. Lets just let him slwoly develop in the 1s. 80 minutes a game. If he struggles then send him down back for an education as well.

Play Lance with him up forward for a bit and see how they work together.

Put him at FF for a quater or 2.

Develop him please.....

I need help….

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