Who's a better supporter? Anyone who doesn't deride people for where they live and claim they are a better supporter than people who live interstate.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

BANG!

Nice work, Clem!

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

You people from Sydney wouldn't know shit

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Don't make me mention Jimmae's avatar to prove you don't know shit!

This isn't Talking Stuff.

I agree with most of what you say BV - and picking the best 22 doesn't necessarily go against picking the kids. The players you have stated there as not being in Carlton's future - well most of them aren't in the team now anyway. Kouta is a champion on the club and is still a good contributor and his leadership on the field is valuable to the kids.

McGrath is debatable. Other than that - who did you want to drop to bring in the other guys? I would love to see Hartlett get a game before the end of the year IF he is fully fit - no point putting him in if he isn't.

Now you're picking on my friends BV?

YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR MAN... TOO FAR!



I think you two just think you're disagreeing, but from where I sit you're making the same point: Don't play hack players who aren't going to be around in two years over a longer term prospect, provided the difference is reasonably negligible.

All I ask is that Denis keeps youth in mind when selecting the team, not saying pick at all costs because the kids need to earn a game (otherwise they end up like Wiggo before this year) but just that if there is a toss-up always select the kids. I don't want to tank, but I don't want the same retreads playing every week. I think the club needs some hope at the moment so I go for them every week, if we are as bad as we think we are we won't win enough games anyway. But one priority pick at that stage of the draft isn't the be all and end all- last year I was pro-tank. It is not development to play all the kids just because they are kids, and may actually set them back....its a fine line and i agree DP could err further towards playing them

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Cheerio to my friends KN, BC, TT, GP, DK, AE, MS, SC, TC, JL, MO & LF

I'm pro getting as much young talent into the club as possible. I don't think having the #1 or #2 pick this year is of any great significance. We'll pretty much be obliged to take Gibbs with the #1 pick if we have it but it sounds as though Hansen may have a bigger impact long term and if that decision is taken away from us then we may end up with the more significant player.

If that means losing a few games at the end of the season to pick up an extra pick at the start of the second round (and gain a bit of bargaining power for the PSD) so be it.

If it means trading players who aren't integral to our future (read Whitnall) for additional 1st or 2nd round picks in a strong draft so be it.

I enjoyed our win on Saturday but I'm enjoying the prospect of watching Adam Hartlett/Paul Bower/Jake Edwards/etc play senior football soon more. If losing the rest of our games means we get another Hartlett etc on our list then I'm all for it.

Others might disagree but I see significant improvement from where we were last year. I said at the start of the year I'd be happy to lose every game by a point this year and win another spoon if it meant we were in with a chance in every game and our kids were getting more game time.

Some would like to see them get more game time than they have but I'm not so fussed. We've been competitive this year BECAUSE of the kids in the side not despite them.

To me that's a huge leap from last year.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

v. Those who understand the importance of the draft but offset that against the clubs off field financial issues and the need to provide something tangible to retain and attract members and sponsors. Those that recognise that the young players put in all the hard yards and badly want a win to let them know the work is worth it (see Luke Blackwell). Those that understand that a win AND a loss can both have different long term benefits and don't criticise the club for not maximising their draft pick position.

Yeah, winning one more game will mean 10000 members don't sign up and we go broke and get kicked out of the AFL, great post.

Aaahh Mr. Elwood, an interesting theory and one that I'm sure you have heard from somewhere else no doubt.

The secret to making it all happen is knowing when to trade off your top shelf players. Sheedy nearly turned it into an artform when he offloaded Heffernan, Caracella & Olarenshaw, he got maximum value for them yet he bought Heffernan back for nothing.

He also got rid of Hardwick when he had used up what was considered his lifespan at the club.

He also offloaded players like Delaney to the Frockers who gave them the pick to snaffle Lloyd. It's hard to imagine that any club would be silly enough again but if you don't offer them up, you have no chance of pulling off the deal.

Back to the point, when a player has climbed the mountain of their playing career and reached his zenith, the only path for them then is going down the mountain. Even though these players may have 3-4 good years left, it is at that time that you will get maximum trade value out of them. If you don't trade then, you won't get much in return for them in the ensuing years. It is a scenario that is sure to raise the ire of some supporters but the fact that you could end up with two Top 10 picks in return should make them happy (Ottens & Thompson ??).

After a premiership win, there is bound to be a fringe player or two that played in the GF who would create enormous at other clubs.

I always maintained that we should have been more proactive in the trade arena after the '95 flag. We had players like Whitehead, Manton, Clape, Hogg, Pearce & Rice who could easily have been traded at season's end.

The year after that, we could have taken Spalding, Hanna & possibly Christou to the auctioneeer and see what was on offer.

There is a time to be bold and unfortunately, sentiment has to be thrown out the window in the pursuit of forward planning.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

You think it's coincidental that in the week that Pagan & his assistants come under pressure we have our first win in 11 weeks? That's what I believe is happening. I didn't say I agree with it. I support Pagan as I do the entire club and players & have never bagged any of them. I will be there on Sunday supporting the team as I do every week. I won't be supporting Hawthorn. I'm not that fussed about winning as long as we make progress but I definitely don't want to win the spoon again. I think there might be a few more there on Sunday compared to this week but if we don't win some games we will lose more members. 2 or 3 wins at the end of the season will do wonders for membership.

i've got to say i certainly thought that. After the game Fev couldn't get out quick enough how great Pagan had been in developing the kids and that plenty of them were having their best year of footy ...

... As much as we bag Denis, he has certainly done what is required to get the draft picks most of the time ... his next move will be interesting, as surely he knows the value of an extra top 20 pick.

Tell me where I said that one more game will do that? I was merely saying that there are supporters that recognise the importance of winning AND the importance of draft picks. Your suggestions tend to suggest it is one way or the other.

For a self proclaimed god, you tend to be pretty judgemental. Still I enjoy laughing at your sense of self importance.

After reading four pages on this topic it's obvious there is no right or wrong.

I love the club and was over the moon to see the young guys so excited after the win - on the other hand we REALLY need three picks in the tope 20.

I know I'm sitting on the fence but after all my oppinion doesn't count for anything, all I know is that I will buy a membership next year and the year after that and the year after that....

i want the picks

I love it when we win

these two views are not mutually exclusive

a is a hope

b is a reaction

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Amen brother....its all about timing and having the courage to do it....95 and onwards was the start of our decline.....we never understood the system and Sheedy got the jump on us, they also profited off the field due to their on field success and have money in the bank today because they had vision back then but in turn have fallen away thanks to them hanging onto Misiti, Mercuri etc....they should have booted Soloman, Henneman, Bolton etc when they were worth something but are paying the price now proving Sheedy has reached his use by date as well...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Was reported on ABC radio this afternoon that the Kangaroos have said they are going to rest certain players and get them right for next year.

They're all copying Collingwood who perfected it last year.

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/real ... 22020.html

We should do that too.


But what for? Aren't we tanking again next year?

Hit. Nail. Head

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Not so best of TheSexySquad


AWWWWWW STEVENS.