Question to the posters that want us to tank games. Can you honestly sit and watch a Carlton game and WANT them to lose?

I'd rather stop following the footy.

My view is what happens happens. I desperately want Carlton to win and if they win hopefully it will be on th back of kids . That's the upside to winning.

I hate losing. But if we do keep losing and get Picks 1 and PP pick, then that's the upside to losing. Simple as that.

But IMO you should never ever want to lose in anything you do.

Smash the Hawks and put an end to this losing is winning crap.

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The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Ronald Reagan

Yup. I'd give up following footy too. But I guess those who want to lose are having the time of their life. Bizarro world.

If the loser of Hawthorn and Carlton would be given Judd, Reiwoldt, Pavlich, Hall, Ablett, Ball and Hodge would you want to lose then?? That scenario would never arise but if it did??

You would rather win and miss out on all that talent than lose and get it all? Interesting.

Given that it would never arise, why raise the possibility?

Irrelevant argument.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Miss out on ALL that talent?

We're talking about a pick in the late teens. Very uninspiring motivation to lose.

What if they were given Headland, Travis Johnstone, James Cook or Angwin?

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http://www.benharper.net
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pick 18??? LOL you fool. wasn't barnaby french swapped for pick 18???
the wooden spoon is not worth pick 18.
and given we have managed to draft the likes of luke livingston, murray vance, kris massie, trent sporn, simon wiggins well before pick 18 i would be trying to get off the bottom desperately.

Pick 16 actually. Port picked up someone called Gilham. Not sure where he's playing these days.

F%#k it's just too confusing now, but I am still leaning slightly towards winning and avoiding the spoon but whatever happens will happen.

Just one point though, how come many people call for Whitnall and Stevens to be traded and "hope" to get a first rounder or top 20 pick and then say a pick in the top 20 isn't valuable? Heck even Jason Akermanis probably won't even fetch a top 20 pick this year.

Your kidding right? We have probably an equal list although I think we have a slightly better list, but the reality is our list is on the way up and there list is on the way down...in 2 years we will be 5-6 rungs higher on the ladder than them, although gibbs and a pp might help them a bit....i only rate watson of their young guys whereas we have murphy, kennedy, simpson, walker whom i rate higher than all their kids, we have a full forward that will be playing 4 years longer than theirs ad their other two best will retire this year or next...they nedd to finish bottom more than we do i firmly believe that, but they have the culture and stability in the club to manage it successfully where as we didnt and we are just starting to get it right now.

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Succumb to your highest emotion!!!!

Seriously? Against us? I'll have to keep an eye open for him. Interesting to see what sort of player a pick 16 is.

Point 1. - You can't judge the trading of French as the benchmark of what can happen. Thompson & Ottens changed clubs for ridiculous packages which included some Top 10 picks.

Point 2. - You have to look at each year in isolation depending on the depth that is contained. If French was going to be traded prior to next year's draft, there is no way known we would be giving away #18.

Point 3. - Who was it that drafted Livingston, Vance, Massie, Sporn & Wiggins ?? Yes, that's right, it was Shane O'Sullivan, the man who couldn't pick his nose let alone find a footballer in the Top 20. Get him to find a 'diamond in the rough' in the last two rounds and he was terrific. Give him a bagful of top shelf picks and he wilted under the pressure, Sporn to be a CHB was one of his best ones.

Point 4. - Right now we have Wayne Hughes at the helm and to date, he's shown that he is an infinitely better operator than O'Sullivan. There is little chance of him flower up like the 'Seagull' did. Give him the picks and watch the premiership materialise !!

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Damn, I was too slow too in deleting that post!

I couldn't even find the final changes on three websites.

He didn't make the cut but he is now a Hawk.

Great. So we have to put up with all this again next year and hope we win < 4 games again.

Thanks for explaining why we DON'T need a top 20 pick but can do just as well, if not better, with a lower pick.

'I didn't even know the train thing was yours, all i remembered is that someone said it. Not everything is about you believe it or not.' the point is CG/sheiky, you did remember it and used it as the base for another brilliant thread designed to do little more than stir things up.

as for obsession - na CG it ain't you babe. but hey tell me how you thinking that isn't an example of your 'its all about me' mentality?

as for you shieky

two things

a) imitation is the highest form of flattery so thank you for that

b) if the sig is not meant to be read why write them?Huh? Huh? Huh?


oh and lastly, a promise. I promise I will not comment on your posts if you stop posting -how's that?

But if you do post and seeing as this is a public forum and seeing as how you/CG post on a public forum well gee, I think I'll respond.

now go wipe the sand out of your brahmmic eyes, the wax out of your shieky ears, the fluff out of your Carlton God navel and move on with all those other names you use.


Viva la Dannyboy!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Thanks for completely overlooking the fact that I was talking about O'Sullivan who is no longer at the club and has been replaced by Hughes.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Do you actually have a mental problem ?? And I'm being totally serious here.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

PP = free pick

We get a free pick by not winning anymore games in a shot season.

Free pick.

Free pick? Free pick.

I hope we get back up top as quickly as possible, I hope we don't put in dismal performances for the rest of the season with the rest of the squad, I hope we win.

But to shout down a free pick as worthless simply because it insinuates tanking or losing is silly.

Now seeing that others are using BW's little list as evidence to their opinion that beyond the first round is a risky business, that has irked me into a wee bit of action. I made a list of players drafted from 2001 to 2004 drafted between 17 and 60 (inclusive), which is from where our potential PP is to about the 4th round, as more speculative picks kick in around then.

I haven't done 2005 and am a bit shakey on 2004 because it's still for the most part speculation, and of course this can be considered just my own opinion as well.

I have included F/S picks because I feel that none of these were really first round players, maybe the two Abletts and Travis Cloke, but even that's speculation.

* denotes F/S pick or mature recruit
- denotes a level of speculation about the player still


'Quality' players secured between picks 17 and 60 in a draft 2001 - 2004

2001
James Kelly
Jason Gram
Matt Maguire
Charlie Gardiner
Steve Johnson
Lewis Roberts-Thomson
Campbell Brown
Sam Mitchell*
Leight Montagna
Ashley Hansen
Gary Ablett jr*
Henry Playfair
Jarrad Waite*
Andrew Welsh
Brad Miller
Paul Medhurst*
Dane Swan
Adam Schneider

2002
Troy Selwood
Will Minson
Jared Rivers
Luke Jericho
Tim Callan*
Brent Staker
Jobe Watson*
Brett Ebert
Anthony Corrie
Kade Simpson
Leigh Fisher
Adam Selwood
Ryan Crowley

2003
David Mundy
Sam Butler
Matthew Moody
Harry Miller
Jay Nash
Tim Schmidt-
Brad Symes
Ed Sansbury*
Zac Dawson-
Brett Peake
Ricky Dyson
Michael Pettigrew
Heath Shaw*
Daniel Jackson-
Sam Fisher*

2004
Andrew McQualter-
Cameron Wood
Dean Polo
Thomas Murphy-
Sean Rusling-
Nathan Van Berlo
Adam Hartlett-
Matt Rosa
Jarred Moore-
Brent Prismall
James Ezard-
Fabian Deluca-
Travis Cloke*
Ivan Maric-
Luke Blackwell*
Jesse W Smith*
Mitch Morton*
Justin Sherman
Henry Slattery
Nathan Ablett*
Jayden Attard
Benjamin Eckerman-
Simon Taylor*
Adam Iacobucci-
Chris Knights

Look at the last 'superdraft' (2001), look at the regular drafts, look at some of the stuff we can snap up with an extra pick up our sleeve.