First quarter, time-on. Setanta gathers the ball in the back pocket, runs it toward the 50 metre line, and kicks directly to a Tiger. The tiger kicks it straight back inside 50 to an unattended teammate (who goals). Thornton turns towards Setanta, stamps his foot and yells/swears straight at him. Throw in his woeful body language week in-week out, and it's clear to see that as good as he now is at his own game, he should never lead the club.

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"I had to eat"

And yet if he didn't react some would accuse him of lacking passion...

I managed to get home and see the last five minutes on Ch9, and JB brought up the subject of T-Bird. Basically Gary Lyon said that he has had one of the toughest first five or so years to his career than anyone else in the competition. I agree with this, and thus I can rationalise with him getting frustrated every so often. But I think once we start to have a more structured defence you will see Bret start to enjoy his football more by using his creative flair to set up play. Right now he would find it difficult to always play with a positive attitude, week in week out.

I'm not saying that what he did was acceptable (I didnt actually see it), but I think we should all be able to empathise with Bret and acknowledge that he goes into every match as an underdog against bigger opponents with not much support.

Richmond did today what they always do - stretch our undermanned defence by placing 3 real big (Richo, Stafford, Simmonds/ Pattison) deep in the square and kicking it long to them. Bret did well on Richo today. He cant stop Richo's long leads into space, but he can play hard and fair one-on-one. Richo was far from the difference today, so you could say that Bret probably broke even.

I'd rather a player show emotion on the field and let their team mates know what they really think, rather than bottling it up and letting it gather steam in their heads.

Mostly agree with what you're saying and not for a minute quesitoning his talent. Just think that anyone that leads us needs to be aware of our limitations for now and be able to nurture the young guys while they develop, not demean them.

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"I had to eat"

Dumb MC who again failed to select the right mix of players...if ever there was a case to play Mclaren it was today....Stafford requires a ruckman size player..we never learn and have the dumbest MC ever assembled. We always send out undersized teams....Thornton is undersized for Gorillas like Richo and Setanta doesnt have the know how....Mclaren has done the job on players like Kosi before for Brisbane and I was astounded he didnt play....
Thornton does a good job but we need the real deal down back to give him some relief..I think the Lachlan Hansen supporters would be able to argue their case very well after todays game....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

EB1 it doesn't suprise me anymore. McLaren was the logical inclusion this week. This goes against the MC's charter.

In any case many on this forum would be happy to see McLaren languishing in the seconds.

one word

it starts with T

sounds like wanking

......

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I agree with the initial post. T - Birds body language is dreadful and unless he does something about it, he should not be a leader, i even think he has trade Value. Yes thats right, Trade T-Bird ahead of Lance..

Fev used to show passion and drop his head in the past also , but it was "Oh lets trade him " "Too negative". But not Thorton.

No excuses for this type of negativity on the field. Sure we need to show passion but we also need to be constructive on the park. He could of had a quiet word in Carlos ear at some stage rather than stamp his feet like David form the BB house. He needs to be more accepting of the younger guys and more instrumental in encouraging them to "back themselves".

Yes he's had a tough time , yes he has had to do alot in the last 5 years, but he isn't the only one who has played in our losing sides, and if anything he should be the mature one.He should know better.

I like T- Bird but (IMO) we over rate him. Is this because we have been so lacking in defence. He is only a good defender, not a superstar defender. He needs support, our defence does ( Lance isn't a defender). Lift your head T-Bird and encourage the guys. Work with what you've got.

It will get better and you will eventually not be so relied on... Well i hope so anyway.

THANKS.

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

If you don't think T-bird would make a good leader, based on the fact that he got frustrated with a team mates shit kicking, then I'm not sure why Fevola has been recommended, because he has done the same thing in the past, not so much anymore, but he used to be really bad at it.

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GO BLUE BOYS!!

Looks like Buckley's dreams of becoming a leader are shattered then.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Why does everyone have a problem with Thornton telling a teammate the truth and that they made a stupid mistake?

Last week, Fev went off his nuts at Kouta. In fact, Fev goes off at just about everyone if the ball isn't heading his way... just watch him.

Thornton has been magnificent this year, he has had life tough at Carlton and this year he has played very well.

Ideally however, you'd like to think that everyone encourages each other and doesn't crack the sads Malthouse style.

So do you agree with what he did or not? Or a bit each way? Imagine if our young ones were torn a new one every time they made a blue. I don't want to tolerate mediocity, but the day the older ones go error-less is the day they can rip others apart.

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"I had to eat"

If it was a mistake that could have been avoided, I would hope a player had a "stern" word to him.

If he does something good, I would hope everyone got to the player and told him.

I believe that a trade should only occur if the player in question is willing OR there are multiple factors impeding their performance on the field or impact around the club.

Apart from the occasional dummy spit, I see nothing wrong with Bret. He does his job week in week out to the best of his abilities - it'd be hard to ask more form him. I'm happy to accept that he may occasionally spit the dummy and have a sulk, but if that's the worst he's going to do then so be it.

But, if he continued to do it on a regular basis and it affected his or the team's performance, then we should look at offloading him.

Andrew Walker had a go at Fev for not picking up a player and allowing Richmond an easy inbound..I think its good when young players show they are thinking and trying to improve whats going on and in Thorntons case I think his actions are not about putting down teammates but pure frustration at mediocre perfomance....we dont see Thornton after the game and have no idea if he follows up with players.

I remember hearing Polly Farmer speak as he was often criticised for being hard on teammates for skill errors...Farmer said at the time he couldnt appreciate players with less skill than himself but later on his career came to understand that skills he took for granted really required so much extra effort from an average player to aquire and that he was wrong to chastise them in the manner he did...Farmer of course was famous for always carrying a football with him and practising at every opportunity..I'm not putting Thornton in Farmers class skill wise merely pointing out its a case of maturing and growing up...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

T-Bird hates losing, always fight his ass off and just is getting frustrated by some of the efforts around him. Tough defender and i love it when he cracks the shits, he refuses to let average be good enough.

Additionally, I reckon a bloke like Setanta would have his pride prickled by a Thornton blast and he'd go extra hard at the next contest.

Mayeb Thornton is a master-manipulator and we just don't understand..?

The one thing I've always loved about Thornton, you know that more than anyone else he hates having a goal kicked on him. You can't teach that.

Sometimes he mis-directs that anger at teamates or the umpires, but you have to love the complete disgust he has at the thought of his opponant beating him.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

A skill error is just that, an error. Bret could perhaps better direct his tirades at those that aren't going hard, as ooposed to those already working their butts off but making unintentional mistakes.

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"I had to eat"

Master-manipulator... He's working on a higher level than the rest of us...