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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:28 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I'm thinking that maybe we could use Houlihan to get in on the Everitt trade to Sydney.

I reckon Houlihan is the kind of player Hawthorn lack..... they have ball winners but lack carriers. If you think they'll struggle to get a good pick for Everitt, they might look at Houlihan and a late pick for Everitt.

and we might get one or a couple of the Swans young brigade and/or a late pick in return for the Hool.. someone like Jarred Moore, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:38 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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The Tyrant wrote:
I'm thinking that maybe we could use Houlihan to get in on the Everitt trade to Sydney.

I reckon Houlihan is the kind of player Hawthorn lack..... they have ball winners but lack carriers. If you think they'll struggle to get a good pick for Everitt, they might look at Houlihan and a late pick for Everitt.

and we might get one or a couple of the Swans young brigade and/or a late pick in return for the Hool.. someone like Jarred Moore, etc.


Amon Buchanan....rumoured to be thinking about returning to Victoria...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
I'm thinking that maybe we could use Houlihan to get in on the Everitt trade to Sydney.

I reckon Houlihan is the kind of player Hawthorn lack..... they have ball winners but lack carriers. If you think they'll struggle to get a good pick for Everitt, they might look at Houlihan and a late pick for Everitt.

and we might get one or a couple of the Swans young brigade and/or a late pick in return for the Hool.. someone like Jarred Moore, etc.


Amon Buchanan....rumoured to be thinking about returning to Victoria...


Interesting.... is Buchanan a better player/more value that Houlihan??

You'd think YES, but in reality there wouldn't be much between them.... Buchanan is a role player at Sydney and Houlihan is probably more versatile.

Again, who knows how good Houlihan could be in a good team that gave him a bit of freedom to find space and deliver. Sadly, we're a long way off being a good-team so I doubt we'll ever see the best of Houlihan (hence the logic behind trading him for a player/pick we could use)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:02 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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The Tyrant wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
I'm thinking that maybe we could use Houlihan to get in on the Everitt trade to Sydney.

I reckon Houlihan is the kind of player Hawthorn lack..... they have ball winners but lack carriers. If you think they'll struggle to get a good pick for Everitt, they might look at Houlihan and a late pick for Everitt.

and we might get one or a couple of the Swans young brigade and/or a late pick in return for the Hool.. someone like Jarred Moore, etc.


Amon Buchanan....rumoured to be thinking about returning to Victoria...


Interesting.... is Buchanan a better player/more value that Houlihan??

You'd think YES, but in reality there wouldn't be much between them.... Buchanan is a role player at Sydney and Houlihan is probably more versatile.

Again, who knows how good Houlihan could be in a good team that gave him a bit of freedom to find space and deliver. Sadly, we're a long way off being a good-team so I doubt we'll ever see the best of Houlihan (hence the logic behind trading him for a player/pick we could use)


Buchanan is a good user of the footy and like Schnieder capable of kicking important goals when the heat is on......I think a player who was nearly BOG in a grand final might have Houlihan covered....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:13 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
I think a player who was nearly BOG in a grand final might have Houlihan covered....


Kasey Green? :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:53 am 
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Bruce Doull
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How many years do people reckon we're going to be dwindling at the bottom? Jesus...

Houlihan should be 28 (worst cast scenario) when we're a contender again and that's not going to be his best football?

Insane thread, just a chance to feel justified in disliking Houlihan because he spent plenty of his career playing underweight compared to everyone else. I'm so sick of people who refuse to drop this "everyone should be a hard nut" mentality.

One incident highlighted by Tony Shaw four or five years ago has led to this continual crucifixion of a quality player.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:15 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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jimmae wrote:
How many years do people reckon we're going to be dwindling at the bottom? Jesus...

Houlihan should be 28 (worst cast scenario) when we're a contender again and that's not going to be his best football?

Insane thread, just a chance to feel justified in disliking Houlihan because he spent plenty of his career playing underweight compared to everyone else. I'm so sick of people who refuse to drop this "everyone should be a hard nut" mentality.

One incident highlighted by Tony Shaw four or five years ago has led to this continual crucifixion of a quality player.


He is a serial offender in this area.....not just one incident......you just dont know when he will let us down again, and I dont want it to be finals.
Sure you can carry his type...when they are as good as Craig Bradley but Houlihan isnt even close.
Its not about being a hard nut either...Paul Bower isnt going to be a bash and crash player but he demonstrated in his first game that he wont let us down either when he does have to commit ditto for Simon Wiggins who isnt the most gifted player but you would want Wiggo in the trenches with you because he wouldnt let you down.....

Playing underweight is a nice term but doesnt excuse Houlihans short comings.....Collingwood couldnt win a flag because players like Rhys Shaw, Obree and Cole couldnt hold their ground when it was neccessary and we dont need similar when we get to finals....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Guys - he was a pick 73 in the 99 Draft - you all rave on about the bargains that Fish and Simmo were - well Hoops is in the same category....he's come on in leaps and bounds...might not ever be a hard nut - but has done some valuable jobs this year and is worth his spot on the list. If some of you understood footy a bit better - you'd realise that he's cleaned up a lot of Scotland's messes this year...but no - Scotland can't put a foot wrong on this board! Here's what we could've had after pick 73...

Year Pick # Player Club
1999 74 Matthew Burton Kangaroos
1999 75 Dale Baynes Collingwood
1999 77 Lindsay Smith Kangaroos
1999 78 Ty Zantuck Richmond
1999 79 Balraj Singh Adelaide
1999 80 Jeremy Dukes Carlton
1999 81 Troy Makepeace Kangaroos
1999 82 Nick Stone Collingwood
1999 83 Matthew Shir Adelaide
1999 86 Trent Hotton Carlton
1999 87 Christian Woodley Kangaroos
1999 88 Michael W. Clark Collingwood
1999 90 Andrew Merrington Carlton
1999 92 Adam Mathews Carlton
1999 93 Joe Allen Carlton


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:55 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Several weeks ago Thornton was making a run from the backline..Houlihan stood flatfooted waiting for the handpass and then started backing away....Thornton was being run down and needed a shepherd.....Houlihan should have gone to shepherd but didnt..turnover....goal.

vs Collingwood....HFF... misdirected kick....Houlihan had the chance to double back to make a contest....didnt....
Where he was drafted doesnt matter....its only the basics I am expecting from Houlihan...not Jonothan Brown stuff....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Several weeks ago Thornton was making a run from the backline..Houlihan stood flatfooted waiting for the handpass and then started backing away....Thornton was being run down and needed a shepherd.....Houlihan should have gone to shepherd but didnt..turnover....goal.

vs Collingwood....HFF... misdirected kick....Houlihan had the chance to double back to make a contest....didnt....
Where he was drafted doesnt matter....its only the basics I am expecting from Houlihan...not Jonothan Brown stuff....

At what stages of the game?

Surely the thought of "gee he might be exhausted" comes across at some point in time. Or do you think players can run through the midfield, then back up 5 seconds later and do it again, and do it again, and again.

He's no hard nut, but he doesn't go out of his way to avoid contests. At least when he does something genuinely hard the laughter is drowned out by serious cheering.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:22 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Keep 'em...trade 'em...keep 'em...trade 'em...

Doesn't anybody have the foresight to ponder the possibility that it may come down to what is offered for these players?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Of course it matters where he was drafted...the lower you're drafted - the more PERCEIVED deficiencies you might have.

My point was that despite his obvious failings as a tough nut - he has matured physically and when you take someone at pick 73 - it's a pretty speculative pick...realistically you don't expect them to play 20 games of footy. So I'm less critical of Houlihan because of this - I think he's tremendously skillful - but his stuffups are also very noticeable to the ordinary supporter...

On the side of the coin is the only player on the list who I don't rate highly at all. The club gave up pick 35 for Heath Scotland. I expect a pick 35 to play 100 games of footy and be a pretty good footballer. And for what it's worth - Heath has improved this year. He's name has even been tossed up as an All-Australian. But then Shaun Grigg made the under 18 All-Australian playing a similar style of footy...so maybe it's just me.

Here is what we could have got for that 2003 pick 35 we used on Heath Scotland. Amon Buchanan, Ricky Dyson, Sam Fisher, Ben Hudson, Michael Rischetelli, Andrew Raines. Therefore - I'm far tougher on Heath Scotland than I am on Ryan Houlihan - who has a lot more to offer the club yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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jimmae wrote:
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Several weeks ago Thornton was making a run from the backline..Houlihan stood flatfooted waiting for the handpass and then started backing away....Thornton was being run down and needed a shepherd.....Houlihan should have gone to shepherd but didnt..turnover....goal.

vs Collingwood....HFF... misdirected kick....Houlihan had the chance to double back to make a contest....didnt....
Where he was drafted doesnt matter....its only the basics I am expecting from Houlihan...not Jonothan Brown stuff....

At what stages of the game?

Surely the thought of "gee he might be exhausted" comes across at some point in time. Or do you think players can run through the midfield, then back up 5 seconds later and do it again, and do it again, and again.

He's no hard nut, but he doesn't go out of his way to avoid contests. At least when he does something genuinely hard the laughter is drowned out by serious cheering.


Exhausted?.....all those cheap receives, chip kicks and hair fiddling would be tiring..seriously Jimmae..your not offering being exhausted as a fair dinkum excuse are you?.
Doesnt go out of his way to avoid contests...??...if their was Phd in avoiding contests he would be Dr Houlihan....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:45 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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You have some interesting ways of looking at things Dr SHERRIN but I have a bit of a different take on a similar theme. I don't like having players in my side that are examples of a time when we had to settle for 'second best' because we traded away all of our good draft picks. I am tougher on those players (though it is hardly their fault) because they probably wouldn't be in our side if we drafted someone more effective. I suppose you could call them part of a Claytons 22. Bentick is one of these and Houlihan is probably another.

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Last edited by Pafloyul on Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:48 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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150 games coming up next year, which is an awesome effort in anyone's books.

Great stuff Houlihan, R. !! Easily the best of the four brothers! And we got him!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:21 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

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What i'm interested in is what he'll be in 3-4 years time.

As stated previously he'll likely be nearing 200 odd games, and at 27-28 he'll be one of the oldest midfielders on our list.

Will his game lift to a new level to reflect this? Will he be leading this brigade of young midfielders or still be coasting?

What I guess i'm getting at, is the fact that I think Houlihan has all the attributes and the capacity to be a star of the game. Can he reach loftier levels, a la Brendan Fevola?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:37 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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titimus wrote:
What i'm interested in is what he'll be in 3-4 years time.

As stated previously he'll likely be nearing 200 odd games, and at 27-28 he'll be one of the oldest midfielders on our list.

Will his game lift to a new level to reflect this? Will he be leading this brigade of young midfielders or still be coasting?

What I guess i'm getting at, is the fact that I think Houlihan has all the attributes and the capacity to be a star of the game. Can he reach loftier levels, a la Brendan Fevola?


All the attributes to be a star of the game?.....I'll agree to disagree...be lucky to be on the list in 3-4 years..good luck to him but 200 games will be a reflection of how poor our list has been....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:08 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Well, his improvement this year shows he is heading in the right direction, and I have been really pleased with what I've seen this year. No, he's not a tough player, and maybe he will never be a star. But teams never have 22 stars on the ground. The top teams have 6 (give or take) stars, then another bunch of players a level down, another bunch another step down, and then the last group are average to good players.

Look at Premirship teams, and they will have 2 or 3 players in the team who we look back on and say, 'wow, that person is a Premiership player!'. Like a Scott Howell, a Mario Bortolotto, etc. Ryan Houlihan would happily fit into my team as a 14 - 22 player. He may turn out to be better than that.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:28 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

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He's a girl. We'll never get close to winning a flag with him in the side. And I think its a disgrace that he's eventually going to get his name on a locker, amongst all the greats, with his pissweak efforts for the club week-in week-out.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:33 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Location: In The Boot Of Brendan Fevola Car
You dont trade or get rid of your players all the time,we are starting to get games on the board,meaning experience and these guys are under 25 and improving.


Ryan Houlihan 135 games
Brendan Fevola 122 games
Bret Thornton 90 games
Simon Wiggins 77 games
Jarrad Waite 62 games
Andrew Walker 54 games
Bradley Fisher 50 games

And the experience of Heath Scotland and Nick Stevens

Then throw in

Kade Simpson 42 games
Andrew Carrazzo 40 games
Eddie Betts 39 games
Adam Bentick 34 games

And then the guys who played this year under 20 games should add to their tally and maybe Trent Sporn could suprise us after 50 games if he is kept.

In a couple of years or 3 the most, we should look pretty good after Lappin ,Koutoufides,French and maybe Whitnall have all gone retired and the other delisting.


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