I certainly hope the club aren't trying to reneg on their responsibilities - that would make us worse than richmond saints and bulldogs combined.

A sure sign of a rabble orginisation is one that won't honour contracts - either written or handshake. Everyone went in eyes wide open and it should either be paid out, or honoured.

I honestly don't understand why, if the agreement was there, it has been paid on. It has to be done at some stage anyway, so just do it with minimal backlash to the club .

If we decide DPs not the future - pay him off and get the person you want but you can't have it both ways.

Maybe they should be finding another club such as Geelong or collingwood to take up his contract over there . This way he simply changes uniforms and keeps his wage.

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end of message

The contradiction of it all.....

The confirmation of a marketing component in Pagans package and the airing of dirty linen in the public arena.

Good publicity that.....NOT!

Someone is not justifying their marketing salary and i suspect it is not the first time!

I'm on Wojee's bandwagon. What are gonna call this new club?

Cralton, Caltorn or Corltan?

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Maybe the unsigned marketing component had a performance clause in it that Ron and Den missed.

Down 6000 members, no dough.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

This is ridiculous.. why is it always dragged through the media wiht CFC..

My view is that Sticks is too close to perhaps be objective - he has been sitting in the box for the better part of 3-4 years.

We need someone impartial and not someone attached to the board as Vice President, CoS of MC, everyone's best mate.

A few months ago, one poster [JohnM, I think] discussed the prospect of a footy department review headed by Mark Maclure. Not saying Mark is the man, but I think there are better prospects that are not as close to the situation as Sticks and Gleason, who if he takes guidance from Sticks, would make him irrelevant in the review.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

I agree with you Speedy, I think the board are starting the process of pissing Pagan off from the club. I just hope they follow it through.

Look for the words "unworkable relationship" in the press release following Pagans departure.

Abso-bloody-lutely!

Denis has a marketing contract?

He actually markets the club? Wasn't a marketing deal one of the things which made him leave North?

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

KK that's exactly why he left North. How can Denis do the marketing when he has his horses to worry about??

Apart from the Coaches Forum, what other marketing is there? Does DP only make himself available to coterie and high paying supporters?

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

I think that reading between the lines you could associate the words 'Pagan' and 'gone'.

Taking this one step further... will Pagan tip the bucket on us on the way out the door? Yep. And who will cop the spray? The Board.

Maybe a catalyst for both Pagan and the Board to be given their farewells in the same offseason?

We need a totally independent hand picked panel to conduct a comprehensive review.
Sticks is a great person but he has loyalties to all parties involved.

Establish a panel of people like Gary Lyon, Jade Rawlings, Brereton, Malcolm Blight, Nathan Burke etc etc etc. Get them to interview the players, the coaches, the board, some opposition coaches etc.
Find out if Pagan has established the required communication with the players,
if the coaches are tactically adequate in their understanding of the modern game,
if existing relationships are productive or counterproductive within the coaching staff.
If the players are being developed adequately.
If the board and coaches have a sustainable relationship.

No more el cheapo half hearted efforts. A full review or nothing at all.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I see your point BV, but I'd rather have someone who cares about Carlton like Sticks make the decision than a bunch of outsiders.

Cant say I have been too impressed with Pagans marketing abilities..rather give Fev the money...
Lets just find the pay out money and get it over with....Denis seems to be finalising his retirement and wants every cent owing...he knows its coming just lets get it done so we can all move on...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I love reviews. They make you a better person/club.

Could it be that Pagan wants the dosh he's owed because he feels the end is near and better to collect now than after when it starts to get messy?

Fair enough mate but In dont think emotion belongs in the decision.
Aspects like loyalty and feelings of obligation can cloud the issue.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

yeah but wasn't it sticks who pushed hard for pagan to be signed last year for another 3 seasons

Where do I sign?

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

You need expertise and no emotion in these decisions. A cold and calculating decision made by an independent panel of people with no ties to Carlton and no agenda or pre concieved ideas.

Its like picking a kid in the draft really. Leave the emotion aside. Be thorough and systematic and stick to the process.

I just wish the MC had done that this year with the development of the kids and not played them as an afterthought or as lip service.

Instead we have Smith being hung out to dry. Blackwell gets the same treatment and a reluctnace to promote a rookie or take a chance. Waite is flagged to move back and its empty words.

Finally Setanta gets some meaningful game time but should have had it 10 weeks ago and persisted with through any errors.

Play them, look at them over a period of time and slowly and systematically evaluate them.

Just like an independent panel should be evaulating the football department.

But we will go half way in developing our kids and half way in our review. Its short sighted, cheap and lacking in any vision.

Its the football review you have when you dont know any better.

Not sure, but if so, he screwed up. I think he's man enough to say he was wrong.

No doubt independent analysis from outside the club is good, but Stick's passion for the club is legendary and is a link back to a part of our culture that separated us from many other clubs. We can't waste this passion.

BV you may be right, Sticks may be part of the problem. But I'll be gutted if he is.