Blueboy sticks is not part of the problem, and the only thing he is loyal to is Carlton, do people really think he would put Pagan ahead of Carlton?? Nope, not a chance - I don't see how outside people could run the whole review - they wouldn't know where to start nor would they really care about the end result - would be a case of all care no responsibility,

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

who encouraged the board to ratify Whitnall's new contract last year? Who was gutted to lose Camporeale and was desperate to re-sign him?

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Love Cricket? Love me

There are those who see those stances as evidence for his "loyalty to the club"...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Do Mike Fitzpatrick and Jim Watts qualify as independent? If they were the two "outside" people chosen along with internal staff to conduct the review would you be happy?

too little.... AND they're AFL plants

I think we need to be proactive about this, and get in some former coaches and very recent former players, like Rawlings

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Love Cricket? Love me

Once that final siren sounds on Sunday afternoon, I sense that we be prepared for an off season that will entail many changes at Carlton, with some that will surprise!!!

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

I hope so Wangers

and BV's got the method. Taking our recent history I would suspect an independant committee is the only way to go.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Tyrant - Sounds like you may have missed an earlier thread (about 3 weeks ago) about Watts.

Have a read here if you're interested:

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11823&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=watts&start=0

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

As complex as the crap that has been going on at Carlton, how hard can it be to work out - there are 15 other clubs that are doing a better job than we are at this game called, football.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

hadn't read that thread... interesting stuff

again, I don't have a problem with Watts and Fitzy... but I think there are some others who would add different perspectives.

BTW, i do think its a bit of an indictment on Malouf...... I know what a consultant is, and they provide a level of expertise that existing teams etc don't hold. I can't see what Watts could bring that Malouf shouldn't already have, except experience and/or talent.

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Love Cricket? Love me

This just sums us up really. Everything we seem to do is half hearted and purely paying lip service - whether it be playing kids, reviews, marketing, you name it.

It's like the board and management at Carlton went to some whizz-bang management course and they've come away with all the modern day jargon so they go around sprouting the correct terms but their actions rarely back it up.

Agree there should be a balnce between outside and inside on the team - but we need a tough independent person to lead the review.

What are we reviewing - love him or hate him, Denis is the least of our worries at this stage. Priority has to be given to re-establishing a business and brand.

I am not sure what our revenue base is, but likely to be around $20 m, with poor cash flows to make things worse. We can't afford much!

I would be very grateful for the services of Fitzy and Watts - both are presumably for free and come with different levels of business and football experience.

Whoever is in charge, we need to make hard decisions. I am not too concerned with the AFL's involvement - it is reality and better be them than a bank and liquidator.

So we pay a shit load of money to a panel of ex players etc to select a coach to take us forward sounds good in theory

Question ? what happens if they come up with the same answer Elliott did four years ago and nominate Pagan as the best man to take us forward

Do we re-sign him ??
Do we find a new panel of experts ???
Do we apologise to Elliott and bring him back


Just remember the man who everyone has touted for the last four years as the only man to take us forward and no one could be doing a better job with the players he has had on his list. Was chosen by a loud mouth drunk in a desperate attempt to save his own arse after winning our first spoon

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

What happens if they come back and say that the best coach for Carlton going forward is Strauchnie? Same thing, we deal with that when the time comes.

The important thing is we put the correct process in place to get the best outcome from the review. That means an independant panel as we can't let the outcome be tainted by personal agendas or history. That means getting people from a range of backgrounds to make sure different perspectives are covered. And most importantly, it means the club shouldn't be pre-empting the results of the review before it begins. If you start a review with a certain outcome in mind, chances are you'll end up with that outcome, and chances are it probably isn't the best one.

Focus focus and focus

Sure we have two things to get done......the coach/coaching panel and of course the business model.

Focus on the biggest priority which in my mind -without doubt - is the business model.

Welcome Fitzy and Jim Watts (and whoever else). Denis is the least of our worries for now.

I keep hearing this from you LB, but why cant we focus on both?
Each side of the equation impacts on the other.


In my opinion, the on field direction of the list impacts greatly on the business performance.
I know for a fact that the inconsistent onfield direction of the club is turning away corporate partners.
The direction is unclear, inconsistent and mostly erratic.

We are reactive in our development philosophies and inconsistent in our recruiting.

If the club has a honest, consistent and well conveyed development plan in place, the Corporate partners and members will jump on board.
Immediate success is'nt the key, a well devised plan which is consistently followed is the answer.

That has'nt been the case.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

You're such a tease

Methinks there will be more action off the field once our season ends than there was on it for us this year.

Bring it on.

Agree 100% LB.

More info on Business Model

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

Of all the crap that we have and continue to endure, this is the point which is perhaps the most frustrating. We're finally getting some decent kids _ but only giving them half a chance. Lip service, lip service, lip service. Give 'em a game and think you've done your job. Makes ya wanna cry.

BV,
I like your point about an independent review involving ex players etc, but can we leave Brereton and Lyon out of the equation.

that'd just about finish me - having those blokes making judgement calls.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...