Even if you actually buy that argument it doesn't mean you have to play them in preference to youth. It doesn't mean you need to keep youth constrained in certain positions or give them limited game time. It doesn't mean that Jesse Smith only gets 7 1/2 minutes in a junk game. It doesn't mean that Kennedy has 3 of his 9 games with 30 minutes or so game time. It doesn't mean that Sporn has to play 13 games, only 1 with serious game time.

Fans of other Clubs get to watch a resurgence...why do we have to go Cramer St for the same privilege?

:roll:

Enjoy the VFL Finals J.

my problem is with the theories put forward as facts.

Richmond, Hawthorn have not won a flag in.... oh how long?

How do you know their way is

a) the correct way

b) the only way

for all we know it may come out in 5 or 25 years time that sides that overplayed their kids led them down the serious injury path - St Kilda anyone?


Is there research on this yet?

:lol: molsey, in the words of Douglas Adams, 'Don't Panic!'.

see you tomorrow.

Its not the 1st and 2nd year players that I am too concerned with.

Its Adam Bentick, Carrazzo, Setanta and those types who have had a few pre seasons and are physically ready.

We take a player like Carrazzo who is plain and simply a ball magnet. He was as a junior and in the VFL and AFL he just racks up the numbers. But his problems are his kicking and decision making.

So instead of working on that in the games we ask him to play as atagger/run with player. He gets the ball and chips it sideways. So his effiencey rating goes up but its meaningless stats. He woint take any chances and risk a turn over.
He is playing to instruction and its not in any way his fault. But we are not getting "value" out of him or developing him.

The only way his kicking and decision making will really improve is if he is allowed to play his natural game. That is half the game on the ball and rests and then a bit down back ina rotation. Then as the 4th to 8th midfielder we can start to see how much hurt his disposals can have on the other team. Encourage him to run and take players on which is what he wad doing at the end of last year.

Not to stop, prop and chip it sideways or tag. Play as an accountable player who works both ways and hunts the ball and runs and takes chances. A full year of that and we might then be able to see if he is up to it as a midfielder. If his kicking and decision making are good enough and have improved enough then he can continue in that role the following year.

Otherwise you end up with what has happened to him this year and not really knowing if he can do the job. Suspecting he might not have the skill but never really knowing if he can step up. That requires perserverance and development and experience in games to see if he can improve it.

Work on the training track but take it into games and show some faith and take a long term approach.

JR as an aside does not find the ball like Carrazzo. So putting him on a player as a run with player in the AFL and keeping him there will develop that side of his game. We could have used him on Pearce on the wing against Port and shown him what a kid with pace and flair and work rate does to use it in games.

In the last 10 or so games this year after JR had found his feet in the VFL I think he should have played on the wing for 80 minutes a game and for the MC to have stuck with him. Played on a few players and really develop him and have faith.

But its not just about kids.

I dont believe we have used Stevens very well this year either and have just about run him into the ground. Which is what we did with Kouta last year with a lack of bench time and rotations.

Lance forward and someone else moved back for an opportunity to see how they handle it.

Jesse Smith looked a bit sharper earlier this year after coming back from the injury and I was impressed with his clearance work. His kicking had improved since last year. Dropped a few kgs and moving better.

Not sure why we bring him in now when he was worth a shot 2 months ago and then only play him for a bit part. Nothing like being over run in the last quater of a game when we have used our bench as if its a black hole and think the word rotation is a dirty 4 letter word.

Does my head in this stuff.

I look at Richmond and Hawthorn and Brisbane and Port and I see development and chances being taken. I look at us and see a huge reluctance and the first sign of a mistake or a kid a bit quiet they are benched and dropped the following week.

If we are going to keep doing that then we better hope we get Murphy and Gibbs every year for the next 5. Because if we dont and get kids like JR and Bower who require coaching and development then we dont seem to have the stomach for it.

Gibbs will require little coaching and neither does Murphy. Its the other kids that I worry about.

Imagine what we would do with a Grant Birchall? An outside player who likes to run. Hawthorn have taken the huge and surprising step to ask him to run and kick long in the AFL. Meanwhile he slowly learns the defensive side of his game and how to use his body.

But in the meantime he is encouraged to back his instincts and talent and play. They picked him with this in mind and so they play him that way and also he slowly learns the other side of the game. But he is not hung out to dry as soon as he makes an error.

Flair and talent is encouraged.

Not every kid can be played in this way. But the game is moving that way and its a run and stun style of game and players who have those instincts are to be encouraged and not frowned upon.

The Power and the Lions are probably better examples than the Hawthorn , Richmond .

Both of them have had very successful sides in recent years and both are feeling the pinch from no access to low draft picks. But both of them have sacked their sides with youth and allowed them to go out and play.

I'm more intereseted in how quickly those two turn it around and contest finals again . I would not mind betting they are back there long before Richmond, Hawthorn or Carlton are

I'm on Wojee's bandwagon. What are gonna call this new club?

Cralton, Caltorn or Corltan?

Winning the Liston trophy and playing in a successful box hill hawks team sure hurt Sam Mitchell's development.

I think if you play to many kids and be impatient with the whole appraoch then you can really stifle a young players development.

The game with Richmond/Sydney earlier this year where Richmond played JON and Hughes and a whole lot of others against a red hot Sydney who humiliated them. Not really good for a kid.

They dropped Hughes and JON and a couple of others and got the balnce right after that.

So you can take it to far for the sake of playing a kid.

On the other side if you make every single kid earn it and give them bit part roles and ask for them to shine then thats just as bad.

Some sort of balance is needed. I dont believe we are getting the right balance at the moment and have not developed as much as I would have hoped.

That does not mean you play 10 players in different roles for the sake of experimentation. But it does mean that you might move a player like Lance up forward and try someone else at CHB. Or try AW in the midfield.

Then have a look at a couple of players in a different role and take it from there.

Playing kids who are underdone is not the way to go at all. But Jesse Smith who has been pretty good this year in the VFL deserved a bit more of a chance in the AFL. Should have played sooner and had more time when he did. Same with Blackers whose game time has vanished in some sort of Bermuda triangle.

Which part of the kids poise and ability to "wriggle" his way out of trouble in a pack does Denis not like? Which pin point kicks are not what is required? The game against Brisbane when he had a full game not really up to standard?

Yeah he wont win the Stawell Gift or intimidate any players but he is clean and good in traffic and gets the ball and uses it well. Given game time he will show that.

That's a fair enough argument Elwood.

Another way to look at things.

Players under 21 on the Carlton List (non-rookies) = 10

Maximum games possible from those players this season = 10*21 = 210

Injuries to players (Bower, Kennedy, Murphy, Hartlett) = about 25-30 games worth

Out of 180 possible games those players have played 75 games.

Out of our 21 and 22 year old's (Thornton, Carrazzo, Fisher, Simpson and Bentick).

Out of a possible 105 games those players have player 92 games.

Take out Fisher's injury and the 21 and 22 year olds on the list have all had full seasons.

I reckon that is pretty good.

Anyone seeing a pattern.

What i'm more interested in - will he back-end contracts??

If so i'm in

Sure, but you'll need to put contract demands in the paper next week.