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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:05 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

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GWS wrote:
I'm just about ready to believe the PP for Pagan conspiracy theory.


I'm thinking the same.
Too many "coincidences"

The AFL just happened to have observers involved

The vote against Pagan just happened to turn on its head in 24 hours.

The club which cant pay it's bills on its own just happens to be heading to court when they've refused to in the past.
:?

Is this what Dr Sherrin inferred?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:07 am 
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Harry Vallence

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GWS wrote:
I'm just about ready to believe the PP for Pagan conspiracy theory.

There's one thing this week that still has me scratching my head (aside from all the bullshit). Maybe someone can explain this.

Adrian Gleeson apparently went into that meeting convinced that Pagan should go and that Brown's money should be used to pay him out so Mitchell could take over.

We then hear that Demetriou has been on the phone to Smorgon over the course of the "process".

When the final vote is taken it's 10-0 to keep Pagan.

So Gleeson voted to keep Pagan. :?

Why?

People keep suggesting that the AFL is holding something over us but if this is the case then I'd expect this board to leak what that might be. Everything else seems to leak out.

And why wouldn't Gleeson vote for what he believes anyway. 9-1 is hardly that different to 10-0.

But what if the AFL offered a bribe of some sort.

An extra PP for "extraodinary circumstances" is the obvious one.

If I was in that meeting and I was Gleeson I'd vote for that too. Brown and co can always stage a coup after the pick's handed over.

And then today Synbad posts that CFC want to challenge the AFL on the PP issue. Why now? Obviously we realise we don't have the cash to take a legal challenge all the way but what if we were to threaten to do it and the AFL were to miraculously cave in before it went too far?

Something's a little strange in all this.

I'm not into conspiracy theory crap but if someone can explain Gleeson's actions I'd be grateful.


I like the thinking, GWS, and it could make sense if the conspiracy theory is proven.

BUT - remember back in late 2002 after Carlton One came into office - Collo & the Spew supposedly came to an agreement that if we came forward with admitting we cheated the cap, ala SOS and Braddles, that the Spew would ensure we wouldn't be penalised harshly - the outcome spoke for itself and we all knew what Collo thought afterwards - we were double crossed!!!!

Double edged sword in that conspiracy theory!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:08 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jim wrote:
As for Goddard, soft outside player, who never has an opponent, and picks up easy kicks.


Utter tripe

He hurts the opposition with his disposal and provides a link through the midfield

If he was at Carlton he would start in the centre square

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:12 am 
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Rod Ashman
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GWS, if thats the way it has to happen then so be it.

Arranging the course of events to reach this conclusion is definitely not far-fetched and anything is possible I suppose.

And given the AFL's penchant to orchestrate such things for maximum PR benefit and minimal backlash, then this may their preferred approach.

From my perspective, all I want is what is rightfully ours and that is a PP at pick 1

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:13 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Not sure what you mean Wangers or are you just suggesting they might doublecross us again?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:15 am 
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Harry Vallence

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GWS wrote:
Not sure what you mean Wangers or are you just suggesting they might doublecross us again?


Yes, as they did with Collo when supposedly we were going to be looked after if we admitted our cheating. Collo & Spew are friends, although the r'ship would have changed after Black Friday.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:17 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Oh - and of course by this board securing a first round PP it shores up support with members and gives them a better chance of keeping Browny and co out of power.

Board wins

Club gets PP

Pagan stays

AFL's happy

Brown on the outer.


Anyone got Gleeson's ear?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:18 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Wangers wrote:
GWS wrote:
Not sure what you mean Wangers or are you just suggesting they might doublecross us again?


Yes, as they did with Collo when supposedly we were going to be looked after if we admitted our cheating. Collo & Spew are friends, although the r'ship would have changed after Black Friday.


Gotcha.

Possible but I'm not sure why the AFL would do that in this case.

It's too much of a win for them to see Brown and Co kept out and giving this board a victory is the obvious way to do it.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:22 am 
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Harry Vallence

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True GWS, and I hope you're theory is correct - but as we all know the communist AFL aren't predictable or consistent with the way they operate - draft & game rules, tribunal system, alternate strips, distribution of funds to clubs, need I go on?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:24 am 
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Bert Deacon
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Jarusa wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Look, i hope it happens Gibbs n Hansen or Gumbleton will be great... but... :shock:


Actually, does it make sense?

Because in 2003 we got AW because it was discovered the AFL did not include priority picks in the penalty.

Yet in 2002 we were denied the priority pick.




Actually that rings a bell Jarusa, that's a fair point. They won't get the other picks but they should perhaps appeal the severity of the fine (should have at the time anyway). Whilst we're at it can we contest free market? :-D

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:24 am 
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Ken Hunter
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dannyboy wrote:
I prefer the conspiracy theory


The AFL have whispered to smorgy porgy to keep Denis and then come at as like a mad bull and we'll cave in and give you PP


Course what'll happen is the media will get involved

smogy'll shit himself

and demitrispew will get all fired up and strip us of a few other things..


But I can't wait to see smorgys little eyes stuck in front of the camera again - ahh fills me with such confidence does the smorgster!


I claim dibs
or as I prefer to call it

'squeaky dibs'

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:52 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the AFL exclude us from the 1st two rounds of the draft and as we had already used our 2nd round pick to trade for French they therefore took away our PP as the 2nd round had already been traded and there was nothing they could do about it.

The PP was taken in leiu of the French pick

therefore the board excercise could be fruitless

I'd perfer to attack them on AGRO idea

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:59 am 
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Rod Ashman
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The reason the AFL didnt penalise our PP in 2003 was that we still hadn't qualified for it on Balck Friday. They couldve included that in there but because it is a pick that is conditional on season results it wasnt a given at the time

1st and 2nd round picks are available as standard every year so penalties removing those were permissible

I think this discussion needs to move away from the penalties of 2002 and focus on the obsurd situation of having a pre-draft priority pick removed this year when it should be rightfully ours. Well at least when you look at applying natural justice

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:05 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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I think you'll find they took our first round pick and our third round in lieu of pick 16.

We then took Simmo at pick 45. (4th round)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:26 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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GWS...do you think it is possible that the end vote wasn't 10-0?

Think about it...if there has been a meeting to decide whether to keep the coach or not, and if you decide to keep him, wouldn't you want it to look like the coach had full support of the Borad going forward? Perhaps they agreed that whatever the vote, even if it was 6-4, they would officially declare that is was unanimous to the media/public. Just a thought.

As for the new PP rules, and I know Marci and others will have me for this, personally, when they were anounced, I was pleased, although I actually didn't think they went far enough. I hate the PP rule, hate thinking late in seasons that we are better off losing. And when the new rules were anounced, the season hadn't started, and there was no way of knowing whether we'd win 3 games or 6.

As for getting nothing for finishing last in 2005, we actually got Kennedy through getting a PP.

Finally, I'd take Goddard in a heart beat. He's going to be a star. Was St Kilda's best last night. I seem to remember an outside player we once had whose surname started with B and ended in radley.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:29 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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marciblue wrote:
I think this discussion needs to move away from the penalties of 2002 and focus on the obsurd situation of having a pre-draft priority pick removed this year when it should be rightfully ours. Well at least when you look at applying natural justice



Yes absolutely - the only reason we were quiet on this at the time the AFL made this decision earlier in the season was that the club must have thought we were going to win too many games this year :roll: .

Or the other alternative was we were told to go quiet on this issue in return for the monetary assistance. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Synbad wrote:
Some kind of Simon wilson interpretation of what the priority pick actually is...

I want to know.. if thyats the case.. why wasnt it appealed back when...??


Simin Wilson must be up for election. He wants to show all the members that he can make a contribution ....... once every 5 years :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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I have posted this elsewhere but the club erred big time (whats new! :roll: ) by approaching the AFL on this matter in May IIRC. The AFL where never going to cede on this matter during the season as it would've been seen to encouranging clubs to tank.

Their response was expected

Siegfried, I dont disagree with you at all but it is hard to look at this PP situation from anything but a Carlton perspective when their is much to lose for Carlton given the timing and missed opportunity on our clubs behalf with these rule changes.

But overall, I think you're a right. I think I may have contradicted myself within one post! :shock: :oops:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:43 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Siegfried wrote:
GWS...do you think it is possible that the end vote wasn't 10-0?


Certainly Siegfried but it still doesn't really make sense.

Considering the way this board leaks and considering the links a number of people have with people involved I would be truly amazed if the vote wasn't 10-0 and it's been hushed up.

Nothing else has been kept quiet why this?

I can understanding them shutting their mouths on that one if there was a bribe in the offing (PP) but not if they'd just been told to toe the party line for the sake of "unity".

The board isn't united and has been leaking left, right and centre.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:49 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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Effes wrote:
jim wrote:
As for Goddard, soft outside player, who never has an opponent, and picks up easy kicks.


Utter tripe

He hurts the opposition with his disposal and provides a link through the midfield

If he was at Carlton he would start in the centre square


Utter tripe?.....rubbish. That's all he is. Play loose across without an opponent. We have sh1t loads of those types here. If he was at Carlton he'd miss his targets like everyone else with our run, options and the way we structure up. Brings the best kicks around "to their knees". What game have you been watching? You are talking about the bloke who plays for St.Kilda? Take Simpson any day.


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