The guy's future is still in the air. The board, for all their hoping, should at least recognise the danger that he might not be senior coach next year.

And even if he is, Pagan has failed so dismaly at the trading/drafting (of senior players) caper that he has lost all rights to do it this season.

If you were a manager, and 90% of your hirings had proven to be so poor that they were fired shortly after for incompetence, someone at HR would step in and take the responsibility off you.

There is precendence here. The tigers took the ability to draft/trade off Danny Frawley in his last off season.

Lets face it: list management decisions are bigger than 1 man's tenure in charge. We are still suffering my decisions Parkin and Brittain made. ESPECIALLY in this case where Pagan's tenure is shakey even for the next couple of MONTHS!

In an ideal scenario, (ie, the Hawthorn/Chris Pelham one), the senior coach would only add insight to trade/draft decisions and have no executive power in this.

In reality though, we don't have the infrastructure to support this at the moment. I don't know if there's anyone at the club who can step in as "list manager" (working with Hughes on picking kids in the draft). But we REALLY need to start looking at this in future.... or bring in a senior coach who has a 2,3,4,5-year plan we can implement and trust.

So, what do we do for this draft/trade period (assuming Pagan is still senior coach throughout)?

Well, clearly we need to take any excutive power off Pagan. It would be utterly negligent to let him continue to execute these powers.

But what can we do in the short term?

Put simply, I think the board need to implement a super-conservative set of guidelines around this period. Basically:

- Don't allow the trading of ANY draft picks
- Wayne Hughes and team have COMPLETE authority over all draft selections on National draft day.
- A subcommitee of football administrators, Wayne Hughes, and maybe some independents (like Robert Walls??? etc) to create a list of appropriate players to target for the PSD.

We can ask Pagan's opinion, but he has NO RIGHT to get involved in the decisions themsleves.

Now, although this is a conservative plan (for THIS trade period only, mind you... its a short term solution... a longer term one to come), I don't think its overly restrictive. Lets be honest:

1) No clubs will want any of our players. None of our delistings have any currency, and only Fevola, Stevens and maybe Whitnall have any currency and don't fit our youth policy. Trading any of these guys should only be considered at a subcommittee (or board level), and might be more hassle than just keeping them, given the uncertainty around the senior coaches' position.

2) picking only kids or non-AFL players in this draft makes complete sense, and we should let Hughes just do the job he gets paid for.

3) A committee of footy experts are less likely to make an UTTERLY STUPID decision on our PSD targets (like Gardiner).. and are more likely to institute a process behind selecting suitable players (because there would have to be agreement before a player was considered).

This might not be hte ideal scenario, but its really the only option in the short term.

Fundamentally, Pagan has ZERO RIGHT TO BE MAKING RECRUITING DECISIONS.... and its time for the board to MAKE A STAND AGAINST FAILURE AND POOR MANAGEMENT.

How many times does Pagan have to fail at something before we (as a club, supporter base, whatever) recognise that he's completely incompetant at it??

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Love Cricket? Love me

agreed tyrant this draft to important especially with Gibbs up for Grabs .. this is one time i want sticks involved lol

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

well thats a good example.

I have this overwhelming fear that Pagan's utter lack of insight into modern football, and his theory that we lack a key defender and that thats the root of our problems, may have him recommending Hansen above Gibbs.

I hope and pray that even if that DOES happen, Hughes still has the power to pick Gibbs and not receive any reprisal.

I'm convinced that Pagan has no idea what we need or don't need... I just hope and pray that on draft day, Wayne Hughes has the power to pick any players he wants, and with only a vague notion that we kinda need to start developing a ruck or 2, and that our midfield is shit.

But even then, he should always pick whatever players are the best available for that pick.

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Love Cricket? Love me

for this reason alone pagan should have nothing to do with the draft, it'd be the biggest mistake since luke livingston if we choose hansen over gibbs.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

look, I'm sure (well... HOPE) that WH has that level of impunity with his decisions. I also hope that WH has the sense to pick Gibbs... but if his team feel Hansen is the better player, I can cop that (but will be gunning for his blood if he's wrong )

I just REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hope Pagans' input in these decisions is minimal.... and in truth, and getting back to the basis of this post, it MUST be minimal

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Love Cricket? Love me

TB24, how do YOU know that Gibbs is a better prospect than Hansen?

Didnt Sticks go over and wine and dine Gibbs when we played Port / or Adelaide

I reckon Sticks will make sure gibbs is taken round 1 regardless

Also if these finals have told us anything the stronger the midfiled the better the team performance .... win the clearances .. link up and run all important characteristics of a strong midfield and win it there and we have a decent forwward line to capitalise with Fev / Waite / Kennedy and even lance when needed.

if we want to start wining some games the midfiled is first priority

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

i've watched them both (admittedly much more of gibbs than hansen) but nevertheless both and i really like the way gibbs plays, i think he'd be the best kick in our team the moment he walked in and the media dont beat up a player as the best prospect in the land if he isnt, as far as i can remember the player reported to be the best player has gone at number 1. also, i believe setanta can fill that position at CHB very nicely. the way the game is played today, midfielders are the most important players and we have got probably the worst midfield and absolutely no depth in there.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

Deep Breath Tyrants... Calm Blue Ocean, etc.

Fantastic answer. Enough said. I think i agree, but i haven't seen them play and I'm not 100% convinced that a top KPP in defence is not the way to go. But bottom line, I think I'd be happy with either.

Gibbs all the way if we had a second pick then hanson would be a good get but we only have one and like murphy last year Gibbs is the best option for this year.

We need skillfull midfielders and Murphy is close to the best player on our list even after 1/2 a year.. i expect Gibbs to be similar

Look at the teams that have performed well this year ... have strong Midfields and a runing half back out of defence or (defensive midfielders)

Then you add a good Ruck Forward and Key back.

We have a good forward the best in the league if you go by the coleman medal

We compliement with a strong midfield will put our backs under less pressure and deliver into the forward line better.

Thornton / lance and Carlos can play key backs and then add scotland and co to run the ball out of the backline.

if we want someone in the psd go for Goddard

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

My feeling is Gibbs - but of course I am fallible.

Damn well hope I get this one right.

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My Blue Heaven

You are a funny, funny guy when you are angry.



Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

We were worried too some point that we weren't going too take Murphy last year, and we did, so if the status quo remains the same then Gibbs will be our man.

I would also hate for Hansen too go Number one as he may be a great player, but he would always have the the stigma of being selected ahead of Gibbs, and if Gibbs dominated more than him, he would live with that the same way Livo lives with the Pick 4 tag.

Gibbs Must be picked regardless.

By the way, how many realistic options would we have with Pick 17 / 19 for a KP backmen?

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Supporting the Blues No Matter What

i believe nathan brown is a candidate- (194cm defender who barracks for carlton)

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

I really like this post of yours Wolfe



We're building a team.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

nathan was u/18 all australian full back this year.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

a lot of the game these days is won and lost in the midfield

take the bulldogs vs Westcoast last nite ... Eagles won all the clearances and the bulldogs where restricted in the freedom in the centre which is there strength.. when in the last quarter i think inside 50s where 80% eagles 20% bulldogs ...

when the ball goes in you defensive 50 constantly dosnt matter how good it is its goin to be overrun....

We have to build a midfield for the future with the likes of
Murphy / gibbs / stevo / Simmo / bentick / ryan jackson / carrots ect

And compliment with a rebounding backline of Scotland / houla if he is still on our list / bower / russell ect

win the midfiled these days you win the game

Was the reason the bullants got smashed yesterday lost all the clearances and made to many errors and turnovers in mid to half back line.

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

This is the biggest load of crap, and stinks of the blind Pagan bashing that reeks on this site. I do agree that we should draft Gibbs, but 90% of DP picks being duds, that is just crap. We have only had 2 full drafts to choose from, the others have been affected by the penalties Elliott and his cronies got us. On this site Pagan has now been blamed for the potential drafting of Gardiner and Hansen and correct me if I am wrong, but we haven't had the draft YET!!!

I would like to see how how Russell, Hartlett, Murphy, Kennedy, Bower and Edwards can be considered duds.

We have a good draft team in place and Pagan should have a good influence on the selections. Ultimately though, the wisdom of Hughes should decide who we pick.

throw walker in there too and you have the nucleus of a premiership side.

now for a ruckman...

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total