i would take goddard in the PSD over gardnier lol Mjonc

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

Gardiner is only fit for a baggage handler position at a Sydney Airport or running a import/export business out of Bali....

Deluca was hopeless vs Sandy...cant ruck and dropped too many marks...my patience has expired some what with his lack of progression.
I would recruit either Renouf or Jacobs and forget about retred rucks with the idea either one will be our second ruckman after we recruit something better the draft after...Jacobs is SANFL savvy and would at least provide a contest in a Barnaby French type fashion...
Dont waste picks on someone we will be delisting two years down the track

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Any chance of developing Setanta into a ruckman? He has the height and vertical leap, however I guess it would take him a long time to learn and develop the correct technique.

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There is no footy god

I thought the same thing since day one of seeing Setanta arrive at CFC.

But................

Setanta has just started to feel like he belongs. Just started to feel like he is needed in a certain position. He's really starting to make a nest for himself down-back. I'm just worried that if we throw him into the ruck, is it gonna damage him.

Barry threw him into the ruck in the 2nd half for the Bullants the other day, and he did ok.

Hey - it's an option i guess!

But on Gardiner. I'm starting to warm to the idea of picking him up (with correct medical report).

-Ruck Stocks 2007-
Gardiner.
DeLuca
McClaren
Bryan
*Setanta
*Aisakie
**Batson
***S.Jacobs

If i was Coach, i'd play all three of Gardiner, McLaren & Bryan. Each can pinch hit in the ruck all day, thus lowering the risk of injury (which seems to plauge Gardiner) & fatigue (Which seems to plauge Bryan).
-Play Gardiner up forward for his goal sense.
-Bryan down back for his long kicks clearing D50.
-Play McLaren as a roving ruckman.

* = Possibles, but not a certain answer!
**= if promoted
***= a young ruck used with our draft pick. I've suggested Jacobs because he's a big boy and has held his own and stood his ground playing in the SANFL seniors on some big bodies at times. Kicking can let him down. But i think he could develop nicley in time, and he certainly has the size to be thrown into AFL straight away, just hoping he has the endurance to go with it!

I know the negatives of picking up Gardiner..............but just think of all the teams that passed on Fevola due to his 'naughty' ways! They must be kicking themselves. And we're certainly kicking ourselves for even ENTERTAINING the idea of trading him..............Jeez!

Give him a 2nd chance on a performance based contract for 1 year. We can't loose can we?????

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

We need to get rid of the deadwood talls so the others can get a decent crack and the club can sort out who's going to make it.
- Bryan is on very thin ice. As a wise person has summarised: "above average talent with below average attitude".
- Deluca has had so many chances it's not funny. Can't be relied upon to take uncontested marks, let alone in a pack, and has poor skills.
- Prendergast is an athlete whose football skills aren't up to AFL standard.
- Livingstone has Neitz as his bunny, but that says more about Melbourne than it does in favour of Livo. For a multitude of reasons, Livo isn't up to scratch.

Get rid of Deluca & Prenda at the very least, promote Batson, and recruit a mature ruckman for a couple of seasons.
- Keating (subject to medical & $$)
- Laycock (young, promising & out of contract)
- Doyle (if Everitt joins he'll be 4th in line at Sydney, as opposed to 1st at Carlton)

Not
- Gardiner (once an excellent ruckman; injury, form & off-field very poor for several seasons now)
- Chambers (Geelong reject that failed at Sydney)

Yes, Mott, McKernan, Beasy, etc didn't work out, but it's not like we've done well with mature-aged recruits other positions either. And we need a seasoned body to play regularly next year to protect the young ruckmen while they are blooded.

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"...... I think he's talking to you...."

We owe Essendon* due to last year so Laycock should be on our radar!
Offer them a take it or leave it .... lets say Prendergast.
If it also means we actually have to give up something for Goddard to get Laycock through the preseason then so be it.

A fit Gardiner would work perfectly as skill-wise he is the best option out there but I just don't think medically he is worth the risk. His knees are pretty well shot - even in the WAFL he struggles to ruck for more than half a game.

If Laycock is still unsigned then he would be the one I would target. I think he is close to be a decent player and he certainly has the size we are looking for.

I would look at promoting Batson even just as a straight swap for Prenda. At 20 he is still worth persevering with. Given Aisake still has another year left on his rookie contract I don't see there is any need to promote him just yet. If he continues his improvement and a LTI occurs then there is still the option to promote him mid-season.

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

mjonc wrote



Elwood wrote



Homer wrote



I may be blinded by history and potential. DeLuca has tested everyone's patience, and mine too. I would be happy to retain him, with a view of developing him into a ruckman; we owe a lot of players developmental training. But hey I'm desperate with regards to filling the ruck gap. I also don't see Bryan, Prenders, McLaren making up the height to compete, and I don't see Aisake and Batson making it overnight either to support a Keating/ Doyle type in the ruck (development year for them too).

If we could get Keating or Doyle and say a Jacobs type from the SAFL or WAFL (I'm sure they're out there), 2 competitive ruckmen join us for 2007, then I would be happy to see DeLuca in the Ants developing with Batson and Aisake as insurance. There are a few Bryan fans out there, and whilst I don't dismiss their view, I can't see him holding the ruck position.

I thought DeLuca played far better that McLaren for the Ants on Saturday, but that's not saying much for either of them.

Setanta as a pinch hitter is a good idea, but he has really made the backline his position, and is in front of anyone else for a tall back position, along with Thornton. So at this stage I wouldn't rob Peter to save Paul, unless Hartlett and Waite fill the void, at FB and CHB.

Homer wrote



I like the scenario you present Homer and don't disagree with you, but my preference is to retain DeLuca and McLaren for their contract period (ends 2007). If we do recruit, lets say Keating and a Jacobs type, then I would be promoting Aisake and Batson and delisting Prenders and Bryan, because we can (no contract), and because neither are up to it for the ruck position.

That would see us in 2007 with:

1. Keating/ Doyle
2. Jacobs (SAFL / WAFL)
3. McLaren (reserve)
4. DeLuca (reserve)...
5. Aisake (develop and may make cameo appearence in 2007)
6. Batson (develop the 20 yo)

and then in 2008...

1. Keating/ Doyle
2. Jacobs (SANFL/ WAFL)
3. Aisake (reserve and maybe ruck #2)
4. DRAFT BEST ruck available (developing over 2008-2010)
5. Batson (developing over next 2 years, 2007-2008) unless there's a better draftee, and see how he develops.

If we could get Laycock, that would prove to me that finally the wheels are turning to our favour, and we're driving out of the gloom.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I think we are now paying the price for ignoring all the ruck options that were available in the 2004 draft. Look at the following list:

Meeson (taken before our pick)
Wood (slid to Brisbane)
F Deluca
Maric

Would love to have any of these guys down at the club now developing at the Bullants. We need a ruckman badly and there's a dearth of them now. Even though none are ready now they will be in a season or two.

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In WADA we trust

Every man and his dog including every football forum in the country knows that Gardiner's knee(s) are shot and are not able to stand the rigours of rucking in the WAFL let alone the AFL - the fact that we are even countenancing recruiting this crook (oops sorry I meant to say alleged crock ) beggars belief.


We used to do this in the late 90s and recruit duds like McGuane and Orally and then send them off to our poor physio Simon Nelson and tell him fix them to play will you.

I had hoped we were past all that - but apparently not.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Jason Laycock
200 cm
102 kg
Pick 10 2002 draft
Tasmanian
22 yo Nov 2006

Whilst I thought he was unco in the first round against Carlton this year, if I had a choice between Keating, Everitt, Chambers, Laycock or Gardiner

Target #1 would be Laycock !!

If we could snag Doyle, I'd do a trade and use the PSD to get both if players were willing to join us. Next year we'd pick one of the 2 'gun' ruckmen who would take 2-3 years to develop.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Batson doesn't ruck for Ants seconds and he is gone which is disappointing.
Aisake needs several years to develop.
Setanta should be developed as a CHB.
We need a young ruck from the draft who will be ready in 2-3 years.
Next year pick up Keating for crash and bash as a replacement for Bryan and see if either ADL or DMac can come up
Barney wasn't a star but he leaves a big hole
We will be worse than last year and get flogged in the ruck every week
Maybe there is some second stringer around? Any Troy Simminds / Jolly out there.
Maybe we should have tried for Jamar a few years back when he wasn't getting a run.

Just some thoughts out of previos posts - and to add a bit of reality!

* McLaren will feature in our ruck stocks in 2007.
* I'm confident that the Blues will take one of Tippett or Renouf in the upcoming draft. Physically - both are ready for AFL; but Tippett is likely to still be there at pick 35.

I'd delist Bryan and Batson - but Batson is still young. If he was to stay at the Bullants - where we could keep closer tabs on him - play him in the firsts against some big boys - then he may be a chance to be redrafted. I don't think he's been given the proper tuteledge or incentives to play VFL firsts. Leave an incentive there for him to work towards, so when he does mature - the door is still ajar.

DeLuca is still contracted - but I am confident that with the progression of J.Kennedy in the off-season, he is destined to play out 2007 with the Bullants.

That means our ruck brigade will look something like this:-

McLaren - Keep it simple with dylan and he'll go ok.
Tippett - Has plenty of upside; huge potential
DeLuca - Not a ruckman - but has height and can be used as pinch-hitter
Kennedy- Can ruck in the forward line ONLY...meaning McLaren can drop back and fill holes.

Good points Dr.SHERRIN.

How about another wild idea. Let's see whether we can rove to the opposition ruckman. Most center bounce ruck contents are ugly anyway; I don't see many Simon Madden quality tap ruckman running around these days.

We have deficiencies in the middle and in defence. Let's draft the best talent available (in the National draft). If that means we get a good prospect with our second or third round pick, great. However, the number one pick should be reserved solely for the best talent, not the talent that best fits our holes (we are swish cheese at the moment).

We can also look at a second string ruckman in the pre-season draft (if a fair deal can be struck).

Otherwise, let's make McLaren earn his dosh. He ain't that bad.

Dennis.

Good call bondiblue, I hadn't factored in Deluca's existing contract. McLaren I'm happy to keep as a backup anyway. As long as he gets time in the Ants seniors, Aisake may as well stay rookied for another year.
Don't know much about Jacobs myself, but am would be inclined to leave drafting another young ruckman until next year, as it gives Aisake, Batson et al time to develop without another tall competing for balance & ground time. That may sound like crazy talk given the state of our list, but with 2 development ruckmen (Aisake, Batson), 2-3 senior rucks (McLaren, Keating/Doyle/Laycock) & miscellaneous KPPs (Kennedy, Hartlett, Bryan, Deluca), any others wouldn't get enough ground time in the next 12 months.
My draft strategy also figures in the above, which I'm learning is a bit different to others.

The great thing is that Carlton is a club with a proud history of ruckmen. While the role has changed, it's not like we have to justify the need or value of them, only what our options are in the short term while we rebuild.

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"...... I think he's talking to you...."

dlb, Dr Sherrin - good thoughts also.
Interesting idea to have Batson as a fulltime Ants player.
Hmmm.....

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"...... I think he's talking to you...."

If this eventuates then I'm packing my bags for Europe next winter, because it's going to get ugly.

Surrey - might I recommend you start off with a trip to the Caribbean in April for the Cricket World Cup...then make your way to Athens for the Champions League Final in late May...in June I'd take in Queens and Wimbledon...July I'd zip across to the Tour de France - August I'd spend in Japan and catch the World Athletics Champs and September I'd consider heading back to France for the Rugby World Cup....

...in short - whatever ruck options we take; it's another reason to strengthen our midfield with the inclusion of Gibbs and co. who can improve our clearances from stopagges. Quality midfielders do shark opposition hitouts!

...that being said - there's light at the end of the tunnel and I reckon it's getting brighter. Yes - it's going to be a long winter - so enjoy Europe while you can...

Mate, I hold your posts/knowledge in high regard, so on your advice .... antio. See you in 2008.

Will we maybe trade for a developing ruckman? Would Waite or Fisher for Cameron Wood be an attractive deal for both?

Or how about going for one out of left field - why not have a crack at say Sandilands - a couple of players and a second round pick maybe? I know Freo would be crazy to let him go, but equally, we'd be crazy not to ask questions. Is he contracted? I don't think he is - so that gives us a bit of bargaining power if we can offer him something attractive to get him over...

Imagine Sandilands feeding it down Murphy and Gibbs' throats for the next 10 years!!

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If meat is murder then yoghurt must be burglary
GO YOU BIG RED FIRE ENGINE
Move aside Kouta, Lance etc - you're holding us back... from entering the under 18s