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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:27 pm
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Location: Melbourne
ooops definately Tru blue walker either midfield or attacking half back flank

yep he definately in the mix

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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true_blue24 wrote:
i believe nathan brown is a candidate-


*paging Deano*

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:30 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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SA Blue wrote:
This is the biggest load of crap, and stinks of the blind Pagan bashing that reeks on this site. I do agree that we should draft Gibbs, but 90% of DP picks being duds, that is just crap. We have only had 2 full drafts to choose from, the others have been affected by the penalties Elliott and his cronies got us. On this site Pagan has now been blamed for the potential drafting of Gardiner and Hansen and correct me if I am wrong, but we haven't had the draft YET!!!

I would like to see how how Russell, Hartlett, Murphy, Kennedy, Bower and Edwards can be considered duds.

We have a good draft team in place and Pagan should have a good influence on the selections. Ultimately though, the wisdom of Hughes should decide who we pick.


Regardless, Pagan has lost control of the ship.. and thats what it all bolis down to.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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SA Blue wrote:
This is the biggest load of crap, and stinks of the blind Pagan bashing that reeks on this site. I do agree that we should draft Gibbs, but 90% of DP picks being duds, that is just crap. We have only had 2 full drafts to choose from, the others have been affected by the penalties Elliott and his cronies got us. On this site Pagan has now been blamed for the potential drafting of Gardiner and Hansen and correct me if I am wrong, but we haven't had the draft YET!!!

I would like to see how how Russell, Hartlett, Murphy, Kennedy, Bower and Edwards can be considered duds.

We have a good draft team in place and Pagan should have a good influence on the selections. Ultimately though, the wisdom of Hughes should decide who we pick.


I'm not including the kids.

I was referring to the rejects from other clubs.... perhaps a closer read of the post is in order.

ESPECIALLY the point about the management of the list being much larger than the tenure of a particular coach. I would prefer ultimately to see someone in the role that WASN'T the senior coach, whomever that may be. Its a working model that exist well at other clubs.... other clubs that recognise that too much of a coach's tenure is invested in his list management for his own immediate benefit. Thats not the way these decisions should be made. There has to be 3-5-10 year strategies in place.

Pagan, for example, has failed to show us any long-term strategy. Its chipping and changing and bringing in players he can work with immediately who fail.

I'm curious, Cazzesman, how much say Pagan had in the 2003 draft selections?

Walker would have been a Shane O'.... but the others??? I wonder was Shane O'Sullivan certain that Jordan Bannister was a better long-term prospect than Michael Rischitelli? OR how much say did Pagan have over AT LEAST the strategy for that draft????

I might be funny or angry but I want answers!

Here is my assumption, and I would LOVE someone to prove me wrong about this, because its only an assumption.

1) Wayne Hughes picks the teenagers
2) Pagan has direct input into what "senior" players are picked and where (including during the draft or in trades). I would suspect that when it comes to trades he runs the whole show.

Am I wrong??

The fact remains:

1) he has failed dismally at HIS part of this (ie, number 2)
2) he has a limited future at Carlton,... and maybe a REALLY limited future if you get my drift

END OF STORY

YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE. TAKE ANY OR ALL OF THE RECRUITING FUNCTION (ie, part 2) AWAY FROM PAGAN, AND DON'T LET HIM ANYWHERE NEAR WAYNE HUGHES!!!! EVEN A HINT OR A WINK AT A WATER COOLER SCARES ME!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:46 pm 
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John James

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:18 pm
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Location: Adelaide
I have no problem on having a team of people making the selections, with Hughes being the main person. Afterall, this is what he is paid for and would spend the most time looking at them all.

To say he has failed dismally is incorrect as can be seen from the past 6 kids picked. You can't just dismiss them.

My main point was that we can only really judge Pagan on the last 2 drafts, as these were the only 'normal' drafts. Whether we made mistakes in going for older bodies rather than all kids is another point. To say Pagan has no plan is to totally disregard the past 2 drafts where we have largely taken a kids approach with no trading of early picks.

Unfortunately in regards to Pagan not being there much longer you may be right. Whatever your views on Pagan, this is such an important period for us and we need to get it right. Given there will probably be no major board change by Nov, the board needs to come out and back Pagan and the team and make sure we pick up the best talent.


ps. I agree we NEED Gibbs!!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:55 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Gord SA Blue, it's like talking to a brick wall!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:16 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:21 pm 
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Garry Crane
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Great idea. Further limit the coach that the club has agreed to stick with for the next two years. What incentive will he have to get us back and firing if he is told he is too incompetent to trade, to draft, can't have his assistant coaches etc.

Whether you agree with the decision or not, the club has kept Pagan. Our responsibility now is to wear the decision and allow the club to run as normal as possible.

We are not going to get Pagan to quit by taking away all of his authority and resources, we are just going to weaken his moving forward plan and set us back for two years when he leaves. As long as the list isn't going backwards, we must let him coach IMO.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:27 pm
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Location: Melbourne
If pagan drafts Gibbs .. chases Goddard in the PSD ... dosnt touch Gardiner if his knees are shot and looks at a Ruck option later in draft i am all happy and pagan can agree with all of the above :)

then yep he can have a say on draft day

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:17 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Jarusa wrote:
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:19 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: Heartbroken
The Tyrant wrote:
true_blue24 wrote:
i believe nathan brown is a candidate-


*paging Deano*


He's a f*cking candidate alright...


Oh it's a different Nathan Brown? How many of these f*ckers are there?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:45 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Yeah Mr Supreme..........

i thought the same thing..............i don't think i like
Nathans...........!

NAYYY-THAN..............it's SO mid 80s...........!

you can see the Mother hanging out the caravan.........NAYYYY-THAAAN..!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:21 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8232
Deano Supremo wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
true_blue24 wrote:
i believe nathan brown is a candidate-


*paging Deano*


He's a f*cking candidate alright...


Oh it's a different Nathan Brown? How many of these f*ckers are there?


Almost as many as there are Josh Kennedy's.........Carlton/Hawthorn (father-son)/Socceroos!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:26 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8232
Jarusa wrote:
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.
The worst thing about the Pagan haters is that they are repetitive.


Tell someone who cares.......we're not wrong!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:43 am 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:21 pm
Posts: 202
The Tyrant wrote:
Fundamentally, Pagan has ZERO RIGHT TO BE MAKING RECRUITING DECISIONS.... and its time for the board to MAKE A STAND AGAINST FAILURE AND POOR MANAGEMENT.


The Tyrant is a wise soul.

I completely agree. Pagan is a dead-man walking. He should have no executive power with respect to recruiting, especially the national draft.

People are worried that he may try and recruit Hansen over Gibbs, my worry (since French retired) is that he may try and recruit Leuenberger over both!!

I'd have the following rules in place:

[1] Wayne Hughes (and his team) takes care of the national draft, no if buts or maybes.

[2] Carlton keeps all its National Draft picks.

[3] No trading for recycled players over the age of 24. You only do that if you are inside a premiership window, we are not. Example, no Saddingtons, no Gardiners.

[4] We can't plug all our holes at once, we should realise and admit that. We have midfield problems, we have defence problems, we have ruck problems. We have to be realistic, we are still a bottom four side.

[5] We draft the best players, period (this is the West Coast model), we don't draft on need. If Gibbs is the best player we take him.

One more wish of mine, we get rid of Pagan and install a couch who can: teach, nurture, encourage, play the kids, formulate a game plan, not winge about draft penalties and be a positive spirit for Carlton.

Dennis (agrees 100% The Tyrant).


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:11 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
dlb99 wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
Fundamentally, Pagan has ZERO RIGHT TO BE MAKING RECRUITING DECISIONS.... and its time for the board to MAKE A STAND AGAINST FAILURE AND POOR MANAGEMENT.


The Tyrant is a wise soul.

I completely agree. Pagan is a dead-man walking. He should have no executive power with respect to recruiting, especially the national draft.

People are worried that he may try and recruit Hansen over Gibbs, my worry (since French retired) is that he may try and recruit Leuenberger over both!!

I'd have the following rules in place:

[1] Wayne Hughes (and his team) takes care of the national draft, no if buts or maybes.

[2] Carlton keeps all its National Draft picks.

[3] No trading for recycled players over the age of 24. You only do that if you are inside a premiership window, we are not. Example, no Saddingtons, no Gardiners.

[4] We can't plug all our holes at once, we should realise and admit that. We have midfield problems, we have defence problems, we have ruck problems. We have to be realistic, we are still a bottom four side.

[5] We draft the best players, period (this is the West Coast model), we don't draft on need. If Gibbs is the best player we take him.

One more wish of mine, we get rid of Pagan and install a couch who can: teach, nurture, encourage, play the kids, formulate a game plan, not winge about draft penalties and be a positive spirit for Carlton.

Dennis (agrees 100% The Tyrant).


The club is on record in the past few weeks as saying:

1. Wayne Hughes is in charge of drafting
2. We won't trade away our picks
3. They'll only trade for an experienced player after 'due consideration'
4. We are pretty bad and don't have much depth or talent yet the youngsters are looking good ... a situation exacerbated by the salary cap penalties
5. We will draft the best player available (and don't be fooled by the likes of Mike Sheahan and Jon Anderson that Leunberger will go number 1 becuase its total made-up bullsh!t).

So all this has been said but you wise old souls have decided to criticise the club again for what you think they will do rather than the reality. You acknowledge we're bad but then want to take away one of the two mechanisms available to improve our list - trading.

I hope you guys enjoy reading the herald sun, posting on big footy and chanting anti-pagan slogans at the local pub. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:19 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Dukes wrote:
The club is on record in the past few weeks as saying:

1. Wayne Hughes is in charge of drafting
2. We won't trade away our picks
3. They'll only trade for an experienced player after 'due consideration'
4. We are pretty bad and don't have much depth or talent yet the youngsters are looking good ... a situation exacerbated by the salary cap penalties
5. We will draft the best player available (and don't be fooled by the likes of Mike Sheahan and Jon Anderson that Leunberger will go number 1 becuase its total made-up bullsh!t).

So all this has been said but you wise old souls have decided to criticise the club again for what you think they will do rather than the reality. You acknowledge we're bad but then want to take away one of the two mechanisms available to improve our list - trading.

I hope you guys enjoy reading the herald sun, posting on big footy and chanting anti-pagan slogans at the local pub.


You poor deluded man.

What do you think the 'due consideration' means? :roll: :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:25 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
Pafloyul wrote:
Dukes wrote:
The club is on record in the past few weeks as saying:

1. Wayne Hughes is in charge of drafting
2. We won't trade away our picks
3. They'll only trade for an experienced player after 'due consideration'
4. We are pretty bad and don't have much depth or talent yet the youngsters are looking good ... a situation exacerbated by the salary cap penalties
5. We will draft the best player available (and don't be fooled by the likes of Mike Sheahan and Jon Anderson that Leunberger will go number 1 becuase its total made-up bullsh!t).

So all this has been said but you wise old souls have decided to criticise the club again for what you think they will do rather than the reality. You acknowledge we're bad but then want to take away one of the two mechanisms available to improve our list - trading.

I hope you guys enjoy reading the herald sun, posting on big footy and chanting anti-pagan slogans at the local pub.


You poor deluded man.

What do you think the 'due consideration' means? :roll: :wink:


I'm hoping it means if the deal is right and we don't have to give much up and it improves our list we'll do it. This club needs an injection of talent of all ages ... if we delist De Luca and bring in a Keating or Gardiner for nothing, thats a win in my book.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:30 am 
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Trevor Keogh
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but Pagan just request the type of players he wants, eg. He wants a quick midfielder, and a medium size defender. then the recruiting guys gives him the info and names.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:31 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Dukes wrote:
I'm hoping it means if the deal is right and we don't have to give much up and it improves our list we'll do it. This club needs an injection of talent of all ages ... if we delist De Luca and bring in a Keating or Gardiner for nothing, thats a win in my book.


If we have 'exhausted' the pool of quality youngsters then yes...

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