Keogh we might not be travelling well now but to suggest we are one of the first few clubs in line of folding is harsh... We are Carlton , and we will remain Carlton.

Now we are struggling but this wheel will turn !!!

You sound like a man who believes we are doomed..

Rather than just slag off give me some solutions

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

I have. Playing some games interstate .And playing in a new growth area. And this may cut some slack to play say only 2 more interstate games for the season. Even if we played 3 games interstate and another 4 away matches interstate we still play 15 home Melbourne Games.

The cost of running an Afl club is going to increase year to year. We need to find other ways of making money besides handouts from the Afl and others.

MARKETING!!!!!!!

We need to sell to the lost members and next generation of members.

We have to get to 40,000 members and create a positive feeling about the club to get the appropriate corporate support.

This current admin are incapable of doing this.

THERE MUST BE MASSIVE CHANGE!!!!

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There's so much I could say...

Growth area? Does eveyone in Newcastle suddenly forget the NRL do they.

By your rationing we should start shooting the patient in the cancer ward

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Ich bein ein Carltonian

the hard road.

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dane's trolling again

Well if that's the case keogh, Carlton will battle through the next 3 or 4 years come out on top (as I know we will) and we can rest on our name and proud history to remain in melbourne wth the other Vic clubs who deserve it.

It makes me sad thinking about changing anything about us...however if it must be done it must...I doubt it though.

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

No problem thinking outside the square keogh, and your heart is in the right spot.

But we must consider what's going in our favour before we consider your strategy.

Firstly, let me say that we are in a bad situation atm. The moment that is. It's a moment in time, and there are a few reasons for this. To admit there is no hope is rather defeatist, and too simple to swallow. You just need to see where some other teams have been in the last decade and how they turned it around to see that it can happen; and it wasn't due to selling games; that's a cash flow matter, not a debt erosion strategy.

Our debt is not due to lack of sponsors and gate takings, although they haven't helped our situation. Our $25M foray in building a stand we no longer use put us in this mess in the main. It's now $7M. Something tells me the debt is heading in the right direction. It was a mistake, sure, but the AFL is also partly responsible for this too. Yeah, that doesn't change a thing, because we're still in debt, but our position is improving. That's a good start and trend imo...and really $7M today is not a death sentence.

Branding is an important part in the marketing mix. I can understand how some believe the brand is tarnished with the penalties and tag on Carlton as 'cheats', as well as our on field performance, which hasn't helped. What you must consider is the positive position we are in as well. We have a brand and a national exposure that has travelled well over 100 years. Given we are recognised, just a few wins and rise up the ladder will not take too mush time to associate the brand with success again. People, including media and supporters are a fickle thing. I can go on for pages on this, but in summary, we have a brand, we have success associated with the brand, and we have reach. What we haven't done successfully in the last 10 years is conversion to memberships. That's the role of marketing; and that can change in a year.

We had something like 600,000 national supporters, which has fallen to about 450,000 in 5 years. 450,000 supporters in a period of darkness is not something you sneeze at. There's a good reason for the drop; it's to do with ficleness. Marketing can sort that out. Just remember that perception is reality, and the challenge is to change perception, and this comes from action.

We do not have our hands tied, just our imagination. Shit happens, but things do turn around in such a small period of time. I can write pages on Brands that have hit all time lows, only to change their fate from one master stroke. Marketing.

16 Premierships
150 year old history
We're still alive
The AFL is committed to us for the next 5 years
We have a 5 year window; that's a long time.
Carlton doesn't mean just a footy club, it's a beer too.

And what else?....Think about all the positives we can embrace in our bald move to change perception. I'll start you off:

1991-1997 "Too old, too slow, and we won and lost a flag. Noone was right in predicting that lot, as I don't believe keogh's prediction is on the money. Keogh has an opinion; it could be wrong; it certainly is weak in looking for positives, and it's defeatist, or an act of desperation (half glass empty), by not looking at how to fix what we've got.

Today what have we got (half full glass)

2007 we have 30 under 23 yo kids on the list
Delisted the duds.
We have some future stars that have impressed the football world
We have the current Coleman medallist.
We have many kids getting around the 50 game mark...more muscle, better skills...

The problem some have is that they believe everything they read on TC and forums; they're only people having a stab, and that doesn't mean they're right. What they're right about is that they have no idea what the plan is; how do we get the list right, when are we going to play finals, how do we erode the debt, when will we start to travel in the black again....and they're fair enough questions. I don't know the answers, but it's only been this year that we read that Carlton is adopting a youth policy, after a period ehen Elliot stated that Carlton don't rebuild, and Pagan was brought in the rebuild with whatever he thought would work; recycling. That's a change in mindset if ever I heard one.

Think about the positives; then you'll see trees for wood....your turn...

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Maybe we could get a sponsor for the Fevs package next year when he runs to defend his crown.

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Ich bein ein Carltonian

Great post Bondi.

As per usual you are right on the money.

In my honest opinion our "kids" will be the equal of any other club in the competition following this years draft. As you stated above, we still have a lot of things going for us in particular a strong supporter base all around Australia.

The next couple of years are crucial however and we need strong leadership and stability in the club. Hopefully the Brown ticket will form a strong united board and Michael Voss joins the club in an assistant coach.

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There is no footy god

Fantastic post, Bondi, as always.

What I find the most frustrating about our great Club, is that while some people see that marketing our club is a lifeline and potential tap into new blood (sponsorship, members, etc), the people who seem to make the decisions are running about like headless chooks, looking at nothing more long term than the next board meeting.

I do agree, though, that while our history of success is a pedestal of honour on which we can build, there is a perceived history of cheating and arrogance (the negative kind, not the good kind) which is a bit of a millstone around our metaphorical necks.

The media seems to have softened their view towards us, and other than off-field matters, we're getting the same treatment that Hawthorn got after a few years of hideousness.

It can only get better, and will soon.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Good post bondi.Actually I have been accused as being a negative prick at times would you believe.And despite this I have been advocating promoting youngsters all year .Its hard not being negative at times. Going to the Vfl Prem final and seeing guys like Bower and Jackson cooling their arses on the grass whilst guys like Teague and Deluca ran around looking like and playing like old farts was a typical frustrating conclusion to the season for me. Lets hope Pagan doesnt take Russell off for half a game for a stupid turnover. I am optomistic about the playing future.There are good kids at the club and Gibbs by all reports is a gun. we should also pick up some good players with our next 2 picks if the draft is as good as they say.

We will improve and that will increase membership,sponsorship etc which means more money.


However I dont think thats enough these days. You do need to think outside the square.At the very least the thought of going interstate for some games in a new area should be at least looked at. Newcastle is a free AFL zone .Its the 6th largest Aussie city with Gosford is close by

I know things can turn around quickly but other things should be considered.Take a look at the Hawks.They arnt satisfied in getting new facilities for a steal.They know to stay competitive in the Melbourne market they have to think outside the square. They are being proactive.Can you imagine our board being like that.

And as you said yourself Bondi.You dont have the answer to the 7 million debt. And it is serious enough to cause concern. I am not that confident that the current board have the answers to the problem.

The $7M debt doesn't worry me that much, but the cash flow does (bother me).

Somewhere around July this year, in a post on TC, 4th Chicken gave TC the best summary of our financial situation, raising important questions and highlighting the anomolies with the direction, milestones and future financial position, as stated by the board and the actuals. That was Collins though; tough accountant, but certainly reduced our exposure, in financial terms. It's not the $7M that worries me, and if you remember, the $25M in the Elliot era didn't upset anyone when we were winning. We were tasty.

When you're winning you provide the market with marketability, and to a club, that's money in the bank.

Carlton are alot more frugal these days, and I mean only since 2006, that's since the AFL gave us a $1.5M cashflow injection (interest free), to get us through the next 2 years. We still pay almost $500K in interest on the debt though...so really, that's enough to service our debt over the next 2 years too, but it eats into our cashflow.

We are a $20M business and we need to get that to $40M a year. You see it's not just the supporters through the gates we have worry about, its the sponsors.

Oh you beauty....MELBOURNE STORM TRY!!!!!. 8 ALL. Geyer misses the kick. So what 8 ALL!!!. We're attacking...

and so is Carlton. We've got to improve the brand and the reach. We've got the kids on the paddock for a good future; that group is going to make it to the finals. Now it's up to the board.

We've just been given a $6.5M dividend from the AFL, PLUS $500K from them to redevelop the Elite Training Centre...IMO the future isn't that hard. We could get our club at $40M if we invest wisely. We don't have a choice but to do so; because we've got $7M hanging over our head.

I mean right now, theoretically, with the $6.5M we get from the AFL, we could right off our debt, with an interest of $35K, which is nothing when you're a $20M business...and then all you've got to do is pay your team and administration, and grow your business for the cream. I reckon a board with half the brains of the current admin could grow our business, and so I expect this board or Brown's board turn this around; and they will. As I said, blind Freddy will get us through this one. This is a good business, with a, momentarily, tarnished brand, but an indelible reputation.

TC posters could get us through this one. All we've got to do is change the focus of the supporter base from negativity to positivity. The supporters create the euphoria, and the media follow the supporters. You never see community clubs go through what Carlton is going through with their supporters. They stick through thick and thin. Now it's time whilst we have a 5 month break before the first game for supporters to get on with the business end of supporting...and the big sponsors will come back.

We're a big business....bigger than The Kangas, Doggies, Demons, Tigers, Hawks, and Port Adelaide, we're as big in many ways as the Swans, Lions, Saints and Fremantle. It's The Bombers and Collingwood we have to catch up on, because Crows and WCE have got their markets sown up.

The beauty of Carlton is that Carlton is everywhere, in every city and every country.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Poetry!

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

There is actually no need to hit the panic button and suggest changing Carltons name etc in an attempt to secure Carlton's future.

This club will have sufficient talent and also will have developed that talent to an extent where Carlton will rise and become a force once again, most probably later this decade.

Yes we are being propped up financially now, but we wont be allowed to go broke due to the socialist policies of the AFL. (and I dont use that term in a pejorative sense)

Carlton has a large latent supporter base, which will come to the fore once our on field fortunes start to turn around.

This turn around will occur sooner than most here seem to be suggesting.

There are other clubs that will be marched to the football knackery before we do - North Melbourne and Footscray for starters.

So there is no need to get worried about changing names and altering what Carlton is because of the current difficullties that we have been mired in since 2002.

Yes, because our fall as a power club has gone on so long, it is very tempting to think that it will continue to the extent that our sense of Carlton as we know it will have to change or be changed to survive.

Yes, long term there is likely to be less clubs in Melbourne, I suggest that there will be probably 4 less clubs in the long term.

But because of our history, latent supporter base and (now that we have done our 'draft cheat' jail time) the current policies of the afl, Carlton will not have to change its identity and also probably wont be one of the cllubs that has to move or merge to survive.
into the 21st century.

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My Blue Heaven

$6.5 mil dividend??? Did I miss something? Isn't that over five years?

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

WBY wrote



Bondi wrote



Yes you're right the $6.5 is paid over the next 5 years $1.3M per year. I was tlking theoretically; playing with numbers,; tell a story.

We can service our debt with that for 5 years. As we develop on field over the next 5 years (and we will), we could attract an extra 10,000 new members where Carlton would receive an extra $1M+ pa, and as a result become attractive enough to add a couple of new $1M pa sponsors. That's how footy works. If it's working on the field, it'll work off the field, but if it's not, you better have a good presence in the marketplace, or it looks bad.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Plenty of money to be made by raising the price for sponsoring Carlton now all games will be shown free to air.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

I think some of you are too narrow minded to realise the problem. You can't just say "We're Carlton" and say we'll come back because we're Carlton. Did Eddie say "We're Collingwood" and hey presto, they became one of the wealthiest clubs in Australia? No way.

Eddie sold the supporters a vision - that is something our Board hasn't done yet. I hope this is the start of something - but I want more; I want to see bold initiatives to grow this football brand, this business. I'd rather be merged to another club trying to grow our business than just watching us waste away.

Because, as some of you idiots don't realise, we are behind the 8 ball, our brand has been forever tarnished; it takes years to get it back.

Get a grip some of you; too immature to realise that we are in trouble if we don't gain more national exposure and draw in money from other parts of the country and other sponsors.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Hey Clem ixnay on the insults.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

That is right. As has been said before, the board needs to shrewdly sell the 'youth policy' and our promising early picks to supporters -- to really give us hope, if nothing else.

The tools are there. I'm guessing that we'll pick Gibbs, and the media and marketing opportunity accompanying his recruitment will be huge. Couple that with Marc Murphy, who many consider to be a future captain -- even Fev who boldly stated that he will be in 2 or 3 years.

Add Simpson, Walker, Bentick, Russel, Setanta -- it is all there to powerfully sell the future promise and success of the CFC.

I think that they are trying to sell this message, but it isn't quite working or gelling at the moment.


Add in an extra PP -- the 'youth policy' and young talent branding of the club skyrockets.

I guess it's about being proactive, open and transparent, and really communicating a strong and streamlined message of hope to the members and supporters.

If it all clicked I believe that 40,000 members is within reach.