We thought the actual home and away season was tough, well after what we have endured sine round 22 the club clearly needs to articulate to Pagan what is expected from him in 2007. Assuming Brown lies low and doesn’t challenge the board we will have Pagan for 2007. Like it or not Pagan needs to be told what is expected. What worked at the Roos is not working here.

In order of priority:

1/ MUST get back the respect of all players and in particular he needs to communicate and give the youngsters the confidence to play at the highest level. Meet with the players one on one and table the issues. I’m sure the events of the past four weeks has given Denis a big wake up call. He has lost two of his right hand men and he will be next if he doesn’t get the support from the players. We can not continue to lose players each year, last year Campo was a dog for going to the scum for less money and this year Thornton is wanting to leave despite the club offering the same $ as the Hawks

Why are players wanting out?
Who is next?
Stevens next year?

Make the players want to play for you Denis, communicate to them all. I remember being told when Denis was at the Kangaroos he rarely spoke to the youngsters as they had to earn his respect and more importantly it was all about the King.

2/ Develop the youngsters – more than likely we will once again have the youngest list and therefore Pagan needs to enhance their ability for the big time, give them the freedom to display their flair and their best attributes. Our youngsters are being held back and not getting enough game time. And when they do they are predominately given defensive tasks. Tell the youngsters we are going to play you for the next four weeks and we are going to give you game time.

3/ Assistant/Development Coaches – We desperately need assistant coaches that can be mentors (VOSS) where the young players can look up to. The mentors can help through the difficult times and also give them a sense of belonging. Talk to them, assist with their skills and more importantly get into their head to ensure they can play at their optimum.
Mentors that can have one on one talks with the players, guide them, make them understand the history and passion of our famous club. Make them feel welcome so they do not want to go back to their home state.

4/ Game plan – We need to have structure and play to our strengths. The only strength we seem to have ready for the start of 2007 is our forward line (player wise) Keep Fev close to goal. Too often we bust our butt running out of defence only to look up and have no one up forward. Our entry to Fev and other forwards is pathetic. Must teach and up skill our entry to our forwards. We seem to do the same training drills – it’s not working. I attend most training nights only to see the same training drills. Mix it up a bit, new ideas, new voices hence Trout had to go. New drills and new game plan.

5/ Promote the club – Sell and show off our group of youngsters to the world. Other clubs are always talking up their players. Wallace at the Tigers and even the clown at Essendon* is always talking about his youngsters (what youngsters) promote the club. Why is it that most of the coaches are on SEN or 3AW talking to the press selling their club and we have hardly heard a word from Denis. Take as much media exposure we can get. Supporters like us will always stick by the club however there are thousands out there that sit back and wait for information. If no information is coming forward we will lose potential members and supporters.

Exciting times regardless, we are going to collect some real good talent to add to Murphy, Simmo, Walker, Jacko, Bower, Kennedy, Irish and others and more importantly delist many players that have been on our list for toooooooo long and have failed to fire a shot.

In closing Pagan is a proud and passionate man and like most he has an ego. His ego has taken a big dint – he can do two things/ he can continue to go about it the way he has and if so he will be gone mid season next year. Or he can change his methods, earn the respect of the players and allow them to enjoy their footy and I’m sure we will all be better for it.

Nice work.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Wasn't Pagan told all of this at the end of last season

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

I have problem with some of the tactics and postional moves of Pagan this year, but I'm sick of reading about players losing respect for him.

Does anyone have official quotes from players, or asked the question directly to each and every player, can you provide Jarusas on the percentage of hate/love/ neutral of Pagan and his coaching style, player management style?

If not give it up and focus on the facts we do know which is tactics and selection policies on match day and trading/draft periods.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Well put, mjonc.

There are a few people who repeat the phrase "Pagan's lost the players" over and over ad nauseam here, but provide little to no proof that it's the reality.

Put up or shutup, I say.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

i think old dp, may have another few tricks left in the bag.

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dane's trolling again

Now KK make up your mind?

Earlier on you posted "nice work" and now you post "Put up or shutup, I say"

What proof do you need? are you going to wait until a player actually comes out in the media to say "Pagan has lost the players" you are not that naive are you? it will not happen.

Base your oppinions on what you believe is factual and I will base mine on my facts.

And you actually know the facts regarding tactics and selection policies on match day and trading/draft periods?

So you know for a dead-set, honest fact that Pagan's lost the players? Based on what?

While I don't believe everything I read in the papers, I also don't take "facts" like "Pagan's lost the players" seriously when it comes from an anonymous internet poster whose sister's hairdresser's cousin's best mate knows Nick Stevens' next-door neighbour's local coffee guy.

What I said good work about was the original post, which is a list of things the Club should be talking to Denis about, and the concerns the Club administration should have and members do have with the way he deals with the media, his players, the game plan etc.

The "put up or shut up" thing was about something totally different. You're not simple enough to be confusing the two, are you?

When someone like DOA comes here and starts expressing concerns with the way that Denis deals with the playing group, then I'll take it seriously. I don't believe that's happened. Until it does, which it hardly looks like it's going to, I'll take everything with a healthy pinch of cynicism.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Like you I also take a lot on here with a healthy pinch of cynicism!

I'm sure as you know DOA will not post issues relating to the coach for obvious reasons and we would not expect him to do so.

I base my info on close sources from the club and no I will not name them for obvious reasons. I will say though that Denis has his favourites and he needs to improve his communication with some of the yougsters that are trying to make their way in the AFL. He hasn't lost all the players however there are some youngsters that need more attention than they are getting!

My main point is that he has taken a hit and I hope he bounces back better than ever. This will only happen if we get the right assistant coaches that can fill in for his short comings.

Good. Nothing I've read of yours from memory paints you as a naive person.



I don't expect him to either, but I'm sure you realise the pont I made using him as an example.



That's not a new criticism of Pagan, and I can understand that. I do think that statement has some credence. however "there are some youngsters who need more attention than they are getting" is a far cry IMO from "He's lost the players". Unfortunately, some of the anti-Paganites only see things in extremes, and anything short of every player naming their firstborn Denis or Denise is seen as all-out mutiny.



I agree with you 100% there! Let's hope it happens, and happens damn quickly!

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I tend to agree with Dane, i think the old dog DP might have a few tricks left up his sleeve.

As someone else has said, Denis has been severely challenged, Denis has been humiliated. He is an extremely proud man and it would greatly hurt him to go through what he has been through.

Whatever doesnt kill us can only make us stronger.

Prove em wrong Denis.

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Back like a raging case of pubic lice

You don't have to be Einstein to work it out. There's been more than enough from newspaper snippets, to players leaving to forum boards. Maybe the players attitude on-field might give you a clue too. You don't think we've seen and heard enough over the last 4 weeks.

Three words for you.........head......... sand............buried! You can do that but ot won't make the problem go away. None so blind than those that will not see.

Denis should have resigned and made a deal if he had any pride but is hanging around for the money..he was voted out and IMHO has no mandate, charter or anything else for 2007. His personal charter is survival only...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Same thing could be said of you, jim.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

You don't need to be on the inside to analyse a game plan or match day tactics. The papers are filled with amateurs like all of us writing columns on these things.

We all know the facts of our drafting/trading policy now don't we. Their are 100+ pages on it somewhere on this forum.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

So we believe the media now do we. Provide any articles of note? All hearsay yet again? Refer back to my post, provide me with evidence.

Seen and Heard? I've seen nothing. I've heard rumours yet only Thornton is going and I bet the others are the players we delist.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Why did French suddenly retire with a year to go on his contract?

excellent Post by Blueforever.
Pagan needs to reinvent himself and have more confidence in his players. The Blues should move heaven and earth to get the very smart operators in Matt Rendell and Michael Voss as his assitants for 2007.

Are you serious

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Mjonc signing off at 8888