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Thornton Signs for 3 years......

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bluechampion

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:50 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3469

Regardless of the magical ability of TC posters to turn a positive thread into another one full of carping...
Well done to the club for the very strong and sensible way they have approached the Thornton saga. And I look forward to being frustrated by Bret on the field next year.

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mjonc

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:30 pm

Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 8888
Location: 8888

Who is to say contract negotiations won't commence with next years uncontracted crop as soon as this years uncontracted players are signed up? You don't know the answers so why speculate or post an assumption.

Of course the club is thinking of the money, just like the other 15 clubs who all operate under a salary cap, if you remember that last board didn't think of money, they just spent it outside of the rules. Simmo will be rewarded in the pocket, in the meantime he has already been awarded as part of the leadership group.

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kennyhunter

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:27 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:35 pm
Posts: 2436

Quote:

On Friday, Carlton looked to be on a hiding to nothing when they refused Hawthorn's offer of two second-round picks for Bret Thornton.
That would have given them selections 1, 17, 19, 24, 33, 35, and 51 - a stunning platform for revival.
But the news they so desperately wanted came yesterday, when Thornton decided he would stay at Carlton.

From today's HUN.

Who would have taken the picks????

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Siegfried

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:31 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm
Posts: 2864

kennyhunter wrote:

Quote:

From today's HUN.

Who would have taken the picks????

I'm in Qld, have been trying to log onto the HUN all day to ready today's footy news, but the footy section is still from yesterday! Any chance of posting the link to that article please Kenny?

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kennyhunter

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:43 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:35 pm
Posts: 2436

Siegfried wrote:

kennyhunter wrote:

Quote:

From today's HUN.

Who would have taken the picks????

I'm in Qld, have been trying to log onto the HUN all day to ready today's footy news, but the footy section is still from yesterday! Any chance of posting the link to that article please Kenny?

There isn't! Hasn't updated from yesterday. I typed it in. Keen, eh. :wink:

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Siegfried

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:48 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm
Posts: 2864

Very! I'm impressed.

Bloody HUN are hopeless.

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Deano Supremo

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:32 pm

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:31 pm
Posts: 24457
Location: Heartbroken

The Tyrant wrote:

mandy wrote:

The Tyrant wrote:

not to allow Pagan to meddle in the choice

Shouldn't the senior coach have a say on who gets picked?

Rumour has it that Malthouse walked out of Telstra 10 minutes before the Taz deal went through because he didn't agree. I find that very odd that his input can be ignored.

I don't reckon he should, above and beyond being "consulted" for his opinion.

List management is greater than the tenure of a coach. Many clubs are slowly realising now that decisions they make at trade week and the draft continue to impact on their lists long after particular coaches are gone.

Coaches are in the prime position to comment, and their opinion on players will be very valuable, but they shouldn't have control over the decisions. A person like *gulp* Pelchin who's focus is the long-term viability of the club is much more appropriate.

Its the way clubs are going as well. The coach coaches the players he has. He doesn't really need to have control over list management to do his job, so long as his KPIs reflect the fact that he's not solely responsible for driving the club toward a premiership

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TheGame

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:41 pm

Geoff Southby

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 5274
Location: Melbourne

The coach has to have a say in the recruitment side of things, he is the head of the team.

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The Tyrant

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:45 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores

TheGame wrote:

The coach has to have a say in the recruitment side of things, he is the head of the team.

"has a say" is fine.... not saying he should have no input whatsoever

but who "makes the call"? I don't think that should be the coach. Any coach, and ESPECIALLY ours.

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keogh

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:49 pm

Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6468

Carlton should learn from their mistakes and shore up the likes of Simmo and Walker so that this shit with Thornton doesnt happen or is significantly reduced.

What he was offered in the first place was a joke and the club partly cause all this shit.

The club is still stuck in the mid 90s mode when in comes to players contracts.

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AGRO

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:51 pm

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24655
Location: Kaloyasena

keogh wrote:

The club is still stuck in the mid 90s mode when in comes to players contracts.

I hope not. :lol:

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keogh

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:54 pm

Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6468

They are. Bit like the wheat board

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AGRO

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:02 pm

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24655
Location: Kaloyasena

The brown paper bag industry is on standby. :wink:

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buzzaaaah

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:40 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 am
Posts: 17893

The senior coach should always have the final say on draft selections and trades

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T E A M

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The Tyrant

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:15 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores

buzzaaaah wrote:

The senior coach should always have the final say on draft selections and trades

I believe he should NEVER have the final say on draft selections and trades.

Clubs should have someone in a *gulp* Pelchin role, or Greg Miller at the Tigers.

I'm not saying you cut them out of discussions on it, but the decisions made on these issues have massive impacts and in many cases the coach is too close to his own tenure to take a long-term view.

Then we get situations like Pagan now, or Frawley at Richmond in his last year when the writing was clearly on the wall. Not the right "place" to be to be making calls that have 10-15 year impacts on the overall club.

So obviously they're in "the team" who discuss the changes, but they don't have final say.

Obviously clubs would need to adjust the wya they judge the performance of their coach to accomodate this.

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buzzaaaah

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:22 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 am
Posts: 17893

The thing is the senior coach is the person who is sacked if things go wrong. You cant give him that cupability and not give him the oppurtunity to build the team as he sees it.
Haveing said that, I do agree that club can set guidelines. ie no trading 1st round picks, no players over 24 etc,
\But if you sign a guy to steer your team at all levels , let him do his job.

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The Tyrant

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:29 pm

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores

buzzaaaah wrote:

yeah I agree... its a rich to tell a guy he'll get sacked if he doesn't perform, and then not let him pick his list.

thats why I reckon clubs would just need to be cognisant of this when appraising the coach's performance.... more of a "done the best with what he's got" approach...

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BlueWorld

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:39 pm

Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:28 pm
Posts: 3768

Frawley took full responsiblity for Richmond's bad trading & drafting.

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Blue Vain

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:40 am

Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 18077

A coach who has implemented the right structures would delegate to those with the knowledge.
The best player should always be drafted. How would the senior coach know who is the best player?

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:05 am

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Blue Vain wrote:

A coach who has implemented the right structures would delegate to those with the knowledge.
The best player should always be drafted. How would the senior coach know who is the best player?

Burgatrons phantom draft..

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