Now there's a fine basis for a recruiting policy.

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^^^

Don't worry Essendon* ....... We still hate your guts

^^^

up until Greg Miller stepped in and took the responsibility off him

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Love Cricket? Love me

Its that, and also I think: deciding to trade picks for players/picking old hack players with late picks, which is something Frawley actively did as well.

The temptation MUST be there for a coach who knows he has 1 more year to perform to trade a first roudner for a player who might make an immediate impact, like Tarrant for example.... or like Frawley adn Greg Stafford.

BUT if you take this approach you have to be more mindful of this in appraising the coaches' performance. There is a lot more to "coaching" than just wins adn losses. ... so getting the most out of a young squad, for example, would be as big a tick (well, almost) as winning a premiership for West Coast.

A coach should be able to point to strong improvement in certain young players as big wins as well. A bloke like Clarkson can definitely do it. Even Pagan can do it with a couple of names. Problem for him is that there are also numerous neutral/declining players on the list as well. While Pagan could point to Simpson as a win, one could equally be asking about Waite and what appears to be a bit of a plateauing of a career that looked destined for great things.

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Love Cricket? Love me

Anyway... about Thornton...

Clarkson on SEN this morning said that 2 2nd rounders + a 3rd rounder were on the table for Thornton.

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Congratulations CK95

Thats if you believe him.

Paul Roos was furious that the Dawks didnt actually given any consent to the Everitt for pick 33 till 1.50pm. So I would take anything coming from the Waverly-Tassie Dawks with a pich of salt

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T E A M

Lets use Carlton as an example.

Wayne Hughes surely gives his appraisals to Pagan on each player.
If the appraisal is that Gibbs is the best player but not by much over Hansen and LeunBerger, Pagan may decide that long term a star ruckman would be of more benefit to the team. That shoulkd be his decision after consulting with the recruiting people.

Certainly if Pagan was thinking of the next 2 years he would have chosen Gibbs

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T E A M

If you'd bothered to read my posts, you'd realise I'm happy for Carlton that Thornton has re-signed. I didn't think he was worth a first round draft pick then and I still don't. We're all winners. I reckon what Hawthorn reportedly offered was fair. I don't think we were "bending Carlton over". But your club obviously decided they couldn't bear to part with Thornton, hence their general angst and inflated demands. It makes you wonder if they valued the guy so highly, why they treated him like a second class citizen. It's a strange way to run a footy club.

Pelchen's biggest fault in all of this was to play things out through the media. Maybe he thought this would place extra pressure on Carlton to get any deal they could rather than face their supporter backlash. People who paint him as the devil in all of this are just hypocrites.

I'm glad Thornton swallowed his pride and re-signed. It's good to see footballers stay at the same club if possible. Especially when Essendon* hold pick 2 in the PSD.

Perhaps Buzz.
However, Hughes sits in on match committee so he knows the strengths and weaknesses of the list. He then watches and recieves reports on all the available talent.
In my opinion, that makes him the best informed person to make decisions. Hopefully his brief is to build the best possible list for the Carlton football club, not Denis Pagan

IMO, the coaches role is to utilise the best possible players at his disposal in a manner which produces the best outcome from those players.
However, Pagan has previously demonstrated a willingness to get players to suit his ideal style of game.
An arse about approach imo.

Its no use having experts if they cant use their skills.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

No, he played it through the media to put himself in the spotlight.
All it has done is put pressure on himself.
A perfect case of chocolate to boiled lollies.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Dont think I would want my son managed by Anthony McConville....Bret looks a bit of a goose after all this fresh start stuff and not wanting to play for Carlton and then re-signs the day after trade week ends.....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

just as connolly is doing by grabbing Tarrant and Solomon or Wallace for grabbing Polak - I think trade week might be the coaches' domain and then leave draft day to the experts and the picks you've left them to use.


Aver all this should be the board sterring the club in a direction - youth, the time is now, etc

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

McConville was seeking to get a better deal for Thornton, whether that be with Carlton or at Hawthorn. This is what player agents are supposed to do. Perhaps it would've been more palatable to the rank and file Blues fans if things were kept in-house, but maybe they felt they had no choice. It was Thornton's choice to threaten to leave Carlton, not McConville's. Managers advise and act on behalf of their clients, they don't call all the shots, though I suppose it's easier to hate them than the players. In any case, Thornton is now on a better wicket than before, so McConville has done alright.

Supporters who get caught up in all of this make me laugh. Thornton goes from being a hero to a pariah and back to being a hero all because he signs for the Blues. Shane Crawford and Joel Smith fielded big offers from Collingwood a few years back, thought long and hard about their futures, but decided to stay. It happens - It's a part of life. Look at Dean Solomon. He was the subject of much angst a few years back when he was signed sealed and delivered as a Tiger. The Bombers had to send his best mate, Ramanauskas over to see him in London to change his mind. Three disappointing, injury-hit years later and it's a case of thanks for coming, don't let the door hit you on the arse on your way out to Freo.

I believe Brett did seriously want to leave. The "rumour" that Pagan will not be coach in 2008 being the reason he re-signed has a lot of substance to it.

Love or hate Pagan, many of the players dislike him. Barnaby told me himself that he retired as he just couldn't cope with another year of Pagan, and there are a lot of players that feel the same. For a sweet and gentle guy that Barnaby is, to say stuff that would make Rodney Rude blush, DP must have really rubbed him up the wrong way.

I am also a little suprised about Jordo, as he told me earlier in the year that he wanted to be a one club player and that he isn't really homesick and has settled in well. "He could have been pissing on my back and told me it's raining". I suppose it could be a little bit of both. When I asked him about DP, he did say that he was coach and regardless what he felt, he's still the coach. Not overly happy with DP and hoped he would have been given more of a run.

I don't know the solution and if I had some idea, my 2 bob is worth less than its face value. I don't want to make this a sack Pagan thread also, so please don't. I've probably haven't added anything new, but I thought I would give you some info.

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Leaders do not care what other people say about them. When people start talking crap about you, thats when you know you've made it

Surprising Pelchin and co didn't announce this when they were initially interviewed after the trade period.

Sour grapes.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

I'd suggest that we might not see that much of Laza or Kevin Heath around here too much in the ensuing months.

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Congratulations CK95

Probably. Just saying what i heard.

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Congratulations CK95

Completely agree with BV, and this to an extent, but the problem arises when a coach wants to trade a first rounder while the recruiting guy may feel its in the club's best interest to keep the pick.

Who makes the call then? To trade or not to trade?

Thats why I think someone in a role like Pelchen's has the charter to manage the list in every way. Buckenara does the recruiting on draft day, but Bucks reports to Pelchen so they would be completely on the same page and sharing the same vision for the future of the club.

Not saying that agreement is impossible with a coach, but in some cases there may be a competing agenda.

For example, who's idea was it to draft all those re-treads in 2003? Did Shane O' genuinely believe that Bannister was a better long-term prospect than Rischitelli (for example), or was it the case that the picks were engineered by a list strategy conducted by Pagan?

Either the strategy I'm suggesting with a new role formed, OR a very strict set of guidelines around recruiting set in place across the club. ie:
1) Cannot trade a first round pick
2) Must select at least 3 under18 players in each draft

etc etc

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Love Cricket? Love me

The bird has landed

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg= ... eid=303750

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

We have a Bistro?

We've got a bain marie with a few soggy dimmys.
Thats close enough.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.