I guess I've come to the realisation that some people just can't enjoy themselves as footy supporters. There's no point trying to change them, and likewise they shouldn't be trying to make me not enjoy myself as a footy supporter.

Yes I do have a responsibility to Carlton but I believe the club has a responsibility to me as well.
If I give relatively substantial moneys to the club, they have a responsibility to spend that money wisely in the clubs interests and not that of individuals.

If they dont perform (which they definitely havent!), what are my options?
I can put my money back in my pocket and walk away or continue to contribute and put pressure on the incumbents to improve or leave.
I send emails to which I recieve no replies. I contribute less money in certain areas.
What are the options?
Walking away and hoping for the best is'nt in my nature.

If the board deserves a smack, as a supporter I'm entitled to give them one. Same with the coach, same with the administration.
That doesnt make me less a supporter than anyone else here.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I'm endorsing Molsey and Sydney Blues comments....if there is an increase in negative comments its commensurate with the clubs performance..
The Fitzroy supporters sat back, prayed, rubbed beads, chanted and hoped things would get better and let the club slip away......at least while we have proactive supporters who take the navy blue glasses off and who care enough to ask the hard questions I know we still have a decent club and thats a positive....
We want people posting what they think, not posting to be popular......

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

If ever there was an endorsement for how the internet has allowed people to publish opinion as facts which are completely erroneous, the above comment fits the bill perfectly.

Completely agree that everyone should be allowed to express their opinion. But at the moment anyone who expresses an opinion that commends the club or the board gets howled down by a very vocal group of posters. Even in our darkest time there are still positives happening at the club, and it's sad that anyone excited by these get attacked for their views. Many of the attacks are personal as well.

All opinions should be given a voice, but at the moment I think many are being driven away by the attacks for expressing something that goes against what a very vocal group on here want people to hear.

It wasn't so long ago that it was the other way around. In fact I haven't seen any of the 'close my eyes and cover my ears' group being abused and labelled trolls yet so stop being drama queens and support the club how you want to and let others do the same.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I don't think anyone has said you're not entitled to give the board a smack, just that the best forum for doing that is directly through the club. If the club haven't responded to that I fail to see how doing it on TC benefits anyone.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

absolute crap - Fitzroy fought hard and got done by dirty deals by the AFL (who should have been assisting them) and by other clubs. If the climate was the same and the AFL treated all clubs the way they treated Fitzroy then Nth, Melbourne, Richmond and probably Carlton in iuts present state, would all be gone.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I think everybody is missing what Jarusa is trying to say.

There appears to be a campaign orchestrated on these pages for an agenda that is coming from elsewhere. Which is fine if that is revealed and up-front. But its not up-front. Its a "re-education" process that is causing nothing but negativity and disunity. As Jarusa has said, crapping on the Carlton brand is not the way to revive the club.

Its not about criticisig or not criticising. That is what this forum is all about. Its trying to manipulate the forum to suit an agenda.

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T E A M

People have all the right to be question the club and not accept recent performances. Saying that, it is in the way you deliver the message and what are you suggesting.

It is very easy to sit back and criticise the club, it is far harder to come up with suggestions for improvement and how to move forward. People here will email and contact the club, which as a member they have a right to, but what I would like to think these emails are about is how the club can improve and steps that can be taken.

As Jarusa has stated, this site has an influence in the wider Carlton community, which is testament to the wide variety of voices on this site and the majority of great posts. The question we need to ask ourselves is what do we want to do with this voice? Do we use it to tear down the club, or use if for a positive purpose which can either be, supporting the board, questoning the board and suggesting ways to improve.

I'm an optimistic poster - see my signature. I very rarely criticise anyone at the Club - admin or the players - because I consider myself to have a conflict of interest. I cant go around finding positives to fill a website and then criticise it on the other hand now can I? Publicly anyway...

But I really feel as though comments like 'tearing the Club apart' are just too emotive and basically incorrect. What we talk about here is no different to me talking to 10 people about Carlton at a BBQ or at a pub. It has no impact on the Club itself. We will have different views. If most of us are members and paying our cash into the Club and keeping it running then what's the problem? If a new poster wants to come to TC and use our input to decide whether to become a member, and decides not to then that is no different to him or her learning at a BBQ that the Blues are no good and not signing up that way. If we've got problems then we've got problems and we ponder ways to fix them - the best ideas are likely to find their way to someone who can do something about it.

When we lose the passion behind the Club the Club is as good as dead. Long live the passion, regardless of its forms. The great part is that we actually have a positive future now so that passion should be about to be rekindled in the silent masses you all fear for.

Sorry KK - John M would have won it.

The idea that there should be some way to post is scary shit. There are obvious guidelines in place to do with abuse/defamation/etc but as far as wanting people to post in a certain way that's either positive or negative count me out.

I'm sick to death of the negative shit too but I have a choice to respond or ignore it. Online threads usually contain a mix of coversations within the one page. Engage where you choose and leave the rest to those who choose to engage there.

The club is a mess at the moment but last week they did something good (although unfortunately the good was in hanging onto what we already have rather than actually improving our current situation). It was worrying for a while but once the outcome of trade week became clear I didn't see too many posts suggesting that they'd handled the situation with Thornton and Russell badly during the week at least.

I think when things are done well it's generally recognised and when things are done badly that's recognised too. Unfortunately when your football club's at its lowest point in its history it's not that surprising that there are a number of things being done badly.

What I find particularly curious is that those who are generally labelled "negative" also tend to be the ones putting up interesting and often sensible suggestions for how to do things better. Anyone who's ever read a BV piece on our onfield structure or a Synbad piece on how to create momentum from a marketing and membership perspective will know that these are people who care deeply about our current state and see a way out of it. I'd far prefer to read that than a bunch of gung-ho Pollyannas jumping up and down and yelling "Jolly Hockeysticks - everything is dandy!" or "We're Carlton - @#$%&! the Rest!". That's just mindless sloganeering. I want solutions and it's those considered "negative" who seem to be providing them from where I'm sitting.

If people are posting in a negative manner it's generally because they're frustrated. To argue that the manifestation of that frustration is propaganda but trying to paint a positive picture "for the sake of the brand" isn't is more than a tad hypocritical. As far as I'm concerned a forum is exactly that - a place of ideas and exchange. If you don't buy someone else's position then fight for your own.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

That's exactly it. I'm not talking about those who applaud the club for everything it does no matter what. It's those who post about a single issue regarding the club in a postive light and are flooded with replies like 'closing your eyes and covering your ears' and 'head in the sand'. And if there isn't a way to criticise the club on the issue being discussed then all the other issues are just dragged in until the thread has been nicely pointed back in the direction of bagging the club.

It's the same group of posters, the same issues, and it over whelms discussion of anything else.

Blue Vain wrote



I understand what you're saying.

It's not about not having an opinion, but there's no need for slander.

You have every right to hold the board and coach accountable.

You have every right to question the coaches plan.

You have evry right to expect communication from the board and coach........and that's what you tell them....if that's what you mean by 'smack em'.

Some posters get so frustrated they decide to not renew their memberships. What good is that to the club they support? Be a member and vote according to your conscience.

I'd rather hear that a poster will not be voting in the next board because of x y z, and the board I will vote will do something about xyz, because the club needs to do this if it is to xyz.

I want to read about people emailing and getting no response...that's real...and says a lot about the situation, but I don't want to read "this board id F****** and the club is F**** and they are destroying the club and it will not survive..." when a board is in power for a moment in time, (voted in mind you) and it's not the club as a whole that is at fault (as there are a lot of people doing their bit to help the club with minimal resources)...and as a result, it's only a matter of time that such ineptness (if expressed in a coherent way will be better considered by voters) and will not be tolerated and therefore voted out.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

How do members crap on the club brand?

In the end it is all about winning games of football. The members don't win games of football. The members elect boards, the boards appoint the football department and come up with the business plan which ultimately should be aimed at being ahead of our 15 competitors.

Boards, Football Departments and ultimately footballers crap on brands. Members comment on results/vision or lack of them.

From humble beginnings, this has developed into a quality thread with some excellent mature debate.
That is why recognising diversity of opinion is so crucial IMO. Congratulations to all involved.


(Sorry Jars)

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

The same as a private BBQ? This is a very public forum which anyone can access (You never know who). AFAIK the club do monitor it.

Yes, the main difference being written form is easier to recall (locate) than memory. It's permanent. but the principle is the same - we are here talking Carlton and whether someone from the Club reads a forum or hears directly from a disgruntled fan is irrelevant.