We're all frustrated at whats happened to our club, but Pagans inability to coach an AFL side in the 21st century doesn't mean he's lost the playing group.

Spida Evertitt left St Kilda because he didnt get on with Grant Thomas, Kent Kingsley struggled to get a game this year because of his relationship with Mark Thompson...we haven't lost anyone yet.

I don't see any of the younger players lacking enthusiasm and they're the ones that count. Thats one thing you have taught me.

We can only go one way and thats up. I cant wait!

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Why would i have to worry about who i listen to????

There is a new ticket.. its not if there will be a new ticket..
They will challenge...

Denis will be on notice... but this kind of stuff where players want to run away from Denis wont be taken lightly.... They will look at Denis close up.. and really..the emperor is nude.. and they will see it very quickly!! .. and Denis will be gone.... he might survive the early part of the season... but he wont survive long...


and ill back my sources any day of the week...especially right now.

You just hop along to Rundell street ....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

they dont look like scared rabbits out there to you???

They do to me...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Did Marc Murphy look anything but comfortable? Has Andrew Walker relished being given a role down back? In 5 years time he'll look back and thank Pagan for developing the defensive side and versatility to his game.

Was Barassi universally loved by the players at Carlton and North Melbourne?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

A voice of reason. We're not going to miss ADL's 6-8 hitouts a game, he's been tall, but he aint been ruckin - if anything his departure should free up JK for more opportunities. Fairly sure this Griffith bloke has tried out with us and several other Vic clubs before heading west, given we've just lost another mature aged recruit who couldn't cut it, I'm hastenend to think we should be leaping to bring in another one. I'm sick of hearing Griffith's measurements as a justification for his recruitment, I'm sure three years ago we were saying "there's this 202cm bloke from Port Melb who's got big long arms and can really jump, he'd be dynamite in the ruck".

That said, cheers to ADL for the service, I will always remember ye as the bloke who hit packs at great velocity and never dwell on the oven-mit era.

Brad, you seem to think it's anything BUT Pagan not being liked by the players.

Why?

What if what Synbad is saying is true and that the players don't really like Pagan?

It seems you don't like reading between the lines or can't...

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

The fact that he was battling to get a game, had a questionabale future AND had another career to turn to (which not too many players do) had nothing to do with it?

I was on a flight to adelaide a few months ago and I was sitting next to Fabian Deluca. As he was out of contract I asked him whether he was thinking of going to Carlton to play with his brother. His response was "No way would I join that rabble" and he then laughed.
To me that say it all.
I can't believe that there are supporters out there that don't think Pagan is the problem. He is KILLING the club - the longer he stays the further we sink!!

Sorry I missed all this excitement.

I was at the TelstraDome watching another Archie cut them up.

5 goals scored in the first 20 minutes - sometimes am luck to see 5 goals scored in a quarter of AFL.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Of course Murphy looked comfortable. He doesn't need guidance. It's players like Russell who do and aren't getting it.

I agree on Russell who may have had issues with the club or Pagan but on Deluca if it is true or not if he was due for contractual renewel he prob would have been delisted

He wasnt a player who would fit into the future of the Blues who was a future ruck prospect and wouldnt have had limited oppertunity in the forward line with players like JK and even hopefully full seasons from Fisher and Waite.

If Deluca was really interested in furthering his AFL career he would have want to go to another club or walked into the PSD or been traded.

Instead he is retiring to pursue his professional career

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run

For mine Pagan is to blame in part, but the sheer numbers of the non-AFL standard players on our list in the past three years is stunning. There are probably more few proven failures than most clubs, even now after this latest super cull. One certainty in football crap players never like the coach.
That said Whits, Fev, Lappin, Thornton, Russell, French Campo and DeLuca all have been very keen to depart of the past few seasons, and they aint all crap. You can go back to Beaumont, Bradley, McKay, Ratten, Hickmont maybe. That's a lot of names who just didn't see the light under Denis.
Something has to change, when it's not working you can't keep thinking my turn will come and pig-headedly stay the same course.
I would really love to think Longmire was taking training on Monday and a fresh start for season '07. A young coach, young list and grow together.

A big loss for mine. Forget his faults, the timing, the strength, the double grabbing etc. most of which are pretty consistent among the taller boys. Not many ruckmen find their feet (or hands) before 25. Imagine for a moment that these 'faults' sort themselves out as he fills out, all of a sudden his 'hard to find' qualities, the height, the stamina and the endeavour make him a very good prospect. At 24 he should have been just about ready to roll. Sadly we will never know, and even worse, many will remember him as nothing more than a blonk.

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Patrick Smith - Just another reason to HATE Essendon*!

Most players in the league are not Marc Murphies.. or AW that need little or no real coaching.. theyre players that need development...

Something that our non Marc Murpies AWs are unable to have extracted from themselves by Denis and his merry band of yesterdays men..

So when you bring up Marc Murphy please understand he is just in the 5% of footballers ... FREAK.

Whatabout the other 95%???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

synners....how old are you?

im not asking in a "nah nah ur so childish" kind of way, im curious about your age.

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"In fairness it did seem in the early days of the draft teams would just pick a name totally at random out of a hat. I'm pretty sure we picked James Cook at #2 one year. The mediocre forward, not the explorer" - Me, 12/9/2011

Carlton 2012: Lets remind them why they once feared the Dark.

What Synbad was saying regarding being a joke around the club is most likely true. I read somewhere around 4 to 6 months ago that Pagan was so frustrated with Archies marking that he forced hm to wear the Gloves and during one training session he told all the players to kick directly towards his face. First one to kick the ball towards his face was Wiggins. Unfortunately, he missed the mark and it smashed his face. Players and officials started laughing at him

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Bulldogs captain Steve Mortimer stood up to address his troops before they ran out. ''I'm a proud c---,'' he told them, ''I'm a winner, I wish myself a good g...ame, I wish everyone a good game. Let's get out there and f---ing bash them

Suprise announcement. Deluca simply didnt have the upper body strength or hand strength to be a consistent AFL player and didnt develop his rucking skills which were going to be his life blood to a long AFL career. It doesnt matter anymore anyway.



Being a teacher sometimes you have to give kids a decent spray. But if you dont balance it with a caring attitude and a view of the big picture as far as the kid's future then the kids will end up hating your guts and you will lose them. Its no different with coaching. Just the sport side of it and the fact that you are dealing with adults. That makes it worse if you are a total prick.

How society views men as far as men are concerned has changed. Guys have feelings .They want to be treated with more depth. Pagan obviously doesnt understand this. He is from the old school. He is as blinkered as much as the horses he follows. And at 58 he probably wont change.

Deluca's decision to call it a day may have nothing to do with DP. Who knows. Others like Synbad you say they know things and may have contributed to his decision. It does however bring up the Pagan thing again. Hopefully he wont be much longer.

One last word on Deluca. He wasnt the greatest footballer that ever was but in reading and adding to the player profiles on the BLueseum website it becomes fairly apperent that to play 46 games is quite an achievement. I will be the first to admit that I gave Deluca a serve from the outer. The fact that at 24 he is starting a new chapter in his life shows some courage and balls.

Hope its a success for you Archie.

I actually said I agree Pagan is past it in regards to coaching in the 21st Century.

What I refuse to do is believe that every player hates him and using a guy who's decided to pursue his off-field career to support the theory.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Does everyone expect De Luca to come out and say: "I'm quitting because I can't stand Denis anymore? Thanks but no thanks."

It's never going to happen - especially a class act like Archie. Leave that to Aker.

What makes the media is not even half the story most of the time.

It's not all De Den's fault - just most of it
Listen to preacher. Listen to the others who are obviously in the know. It's not hard to work out who they are. A troll here stands out more than Den Den's mullett. Not every single player hates Den Den (there you go, Melvey) but enough of them do for it to be a problem.

There will soon be a lot of humble pie to be eaten by a number posters. Synners has his knockers but he will soon be justified BIG TIME. Like all of us he just loves the club and it hurts like hell to see what the people who are supposed to be running it are doing. They are slowly strangling the place to death. Selling us out to the AFL. Continuing to make us the LAUGHING STOCK OF THE AFL. And we are. I'm sick of copping it from my mates, colleagues. So this was how the St Kilda, Footscray and Fitzroy fans felt for all those years. And we are supposed to stand by and watch it! Den Den on the field and Smorgo and his mates off it. We can't do much but there are powerful people who can ... and will.

Synners has their ear and we should be grateful he is letting us in on as much as he can.

I'm sure he'll be gracious when it all comes to fruition.

It's going to make us all happy. And Synners will still be the man.

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

And then all we have to do is LOCK IN LACHIE

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!