That's our boy ... Den Den, the modern-day coach.

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

What's with all the hoo-ha? Aker didn't like his coach. The big difference is Aker signed a three year contract with another club and DeLuca won't be playing for anyone. DeLuca knows he will never be good enough and that if he can't make it at the worst side in the league he's never going to make it. If he did think he was good enough he'd have sounded out one of the sensitive new age coaches and tried to get a gig with their team.

It's not so much about Archie - it's that it's a recurring theme ...

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

I posted about it a few years ago re Ratten, Bradley, Hickmott but was told they were cancer and had to be eliminated and that when Pagan had finally gotten rid of all the players who weren't on his side we would see a different Carlton.

I reckon that was three years ago.

oh hail to the great god we should all bow to his superior knowledge

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Can smell the gf its there for the taking we are the form side

Seeeee!!! You are converted already.

I'll PM the details of how to join the fan club. I'm president - and don't you dare challenge me ... or i'll cut the size of the committee ... while telling the media how united we are

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I just want my old club back ... (edit) maybe I have!

Just re-reading it now. Very interesting stuff. Was May 2004, so not quite three years ago.

Looking back, some of us could see it quite clearly then.

lmao kenny

Verbs u have that much time on ur hands that u r going thru posts that are 3 yrs old? get a gf or bf for freaks sake

kickin the bal at somebodys face is quite draconian dont even think the military could train someone like that anymore. (but somehow amusing that it could thru those big hands and smashed him in the head)

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Can smell the gf its there for the taking we are the form side

I think Synbad will end up with mud on his face as usual.

I was never really as pro Pagan as others when he arrived, would have much rathered let Britts have the last year and then had a more open process, with both Eade and Wallace and others available. When was the last time Carlton actually interviewed a number of candidates for the main coaching job? Round about never I'd think. Now I am not as anti as some on here. In 2003 Synbad and others were lauding the same things about Pagan that he and others are now criticising ie the fact that he is really tough on players, and the fact that he was autocratic instead of inclusive. He had the power instead of empowering the players. People criticised Britts for being liked by the players and now DP for being disliked. Fact is we have a shocking list, with few mature leaders. Another coach may have got us a few rungs up the ladder and lost us a few PPs. The other issue is our financial position and DPs salary. Yeah I know about Fraser Bs offer, but offers with a proviso that a mate gets the job are not worth taking. I'd cop 4 wins in 07, top 2 draft picks, DP on his way at end of 07, all the players we want are staying this year and if DP is finished at end of 07 they won't be leaving to get away from him.

With regard to ADL, he got a more than fair go from DP and he probably frustrated the coach 'cos he certainly frustrated me.

And DP has supported young players who have earned that support, AB for instance. And I was impressed with the fact that he perhaps risked a win against Melbourne by putting his faith in Russell, Blackwell and Setanta in the last quarter. With Russell, he has potential, but he won't be a player until he can watch the ball in marking contests and not drop his head. I would think every coach would point that out in no uncertain terms. My main problem with DP is his lack of tactical nous. In a year or two some lucky young coach is going to inherit a side with lots of potential. Anyway, off the point, sorry about that, best of luck ADL

A bit off topic but a good read.

Firstly I understand our playing stocks are thin but they have improved and will improve again after this draft if we recruit wisley.

However I will be bitterly disappointed if we were to finish 2007 with only four wins. We need a winning attitude at the club and the kids we already have need to learn to win to believe in themselves.

It's such a horrible thing to consider, but let's consider it. We all want to build a team that is capable of winning a Premiership, not just make up the numbers in the 8.

If we were to win 4 or less next year, end up with picks 1 and 2 or 1 and 3, then that would give us Murphy, Walker, Kennedy, Gibbs/Hansen/Leuenberger, Fevola, Stevens, Simpson, and picks 1 and 2/3 from next year, who you would all reasonably hope to become top level players. That's 8 top level.

Then at the next level, Waite, Fisher, Setanta, Thornton, Scotland, Blackwell, Houlihan (I know alot aren't a wrap for Houlihan, I know he's soft, but I think he will surprise us over the next few years), Wiggins. One of or two of those may even go to the next level.

THen the other kids, and you'd hope that many of those can step up several levels, but that is unknown at this stage.

As unpalatable as 4 wins is next year (would guarantee as new coach though), and as much as I don't want it to happen, if the Club could get through it without imploding, and without all the players wanting out, it might just take us from being a club which is around the top 4, but not good enough to go further, to a club with a realistic shot at a Flag.

I HATE priority picks!!!!! (until you get 'em of course)

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

See , Wiggins can hit a target !

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Siegfried I understand the logic of that yet I dont see St Kilda winning premership with all their early picks.

The other thing is Simmo and Fev wernt first round picks yet Livo was so even with the best reseaching of the talent available mistakes can be made . Also I rate some of our kids higher than others probably do. I believe Blackwell will be a star as will Setanta. Another you have left out is Paul Bower - he impressed me with the small amount of time he got last year.

If we start winning those second string players you have listed will come on faster purely becuase of a little self belief. We showed positive signs this year and I believe that fitness and size let us down in a number of games, another preseason into some of those young bodies and they will run matches out better and be able to withstand the rigours of modern footy better.

I don't disagree with you Mark. I guess it's just a question of whether picks 1 and 2/3 (as against, say pick 4), would POTENTIALLY (and it's a dangerous word) help us take the step to being the chance at a Flag.

Personally, I hope we win 7 or 8 next year, with improvement from the kids, and the kids leading the way.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

And on St Kilda...with a bit more luck with injuries (and perhaps a different coach) they may yet have won a Premiership.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

True but two years ago they ran up against a less skilled opponent but one whose sheer determination should have taught them a lesson for this year. The Swans may not have the stars the Saints do but the play like their lifes depend on it and they play for each other. Maybe if they had better mental determination they could - but hey culture

I really can't see how anyone is trying to put a political spin on this. That's not what it's about.

Deluca is in the enviable position of having a choice between 2 careers at age 24, both he has some qualities towards and both would make him a lot of money if he gets good at them. He's choosing one option over another.

As far as the CFC is concerned, we all knew that Deluca had some good attributes but I think most knew he was struggling to maintain his spot at the best of times. He could be pushed off the push or harangued out of a mark by mid-side opponents. This really came home to roost in the early Richmond game this year where he just couldnt take a mark. The gloves helped but the competition noticed - his hands aren't good enough at this level. In some respects his height is a mirage as he doesn't use it, or can't use it.

I for one am really happy that those we know aren't long-term players have fallen by the way in 2006. This is how it should be. Political points or not Deluca gave it a go and chose another option. There is no shame in that and he will have achieved far more than many on here.

If we are taking Gibbs I would....and take a rookie ruck from the above list as well....other wise I would take Renouf and Jacobs if possible...all under the presumption we are recruiting Gibbs..
Cox was an unknown so was Sandilands....couple of handy rookie list unknowns...
Ackland is a known...and known to be too short ...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen