pffft... no other coach could have done worse. Yet we paid bucketloads for the privilege to be shit. Pagan has had more than enough chances.

I agree that we should be positive as we move into each new season - however to trot out the line that 'no other coach could have done a better job' is akin to pissing down someones back and telling them its raining.

You can bag the guy if you've given him the tools to do the job but do you really reckon he has been afforded that. It would be fair to suggest that the facilities he has at his disposal at Carlton are the worse in the AFL how the f#%k can you lay the blame on him and him alone for the situation we are in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The word from one of the players today was that the pre-season program looks great and full of fun. Plenty of variety and cross training.

Bradley had a quick chat to the group, He has asked everyone to enjoy what they are doing and to simply play for each other and enjoy each others company when they come together to train and play.

All the players were excited to be back to get stuck into the training.

Apparently MM copped abit of a bagging today from a few of the lads telling him he won't be #1 for much longer In typical MM fashion he took in all in his stride and blitzed them around the track.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Brock,
Today .I spoke to some of the players(after training)for me,they provided the most [b]positive and powerful/b]feedback in my short association with the CFC

Dennis, is that you!?

Spot on Brock, if Pagan went to St Kilda now he would have a very large expectation... but the truth of the matter is that he walked into a club on a downward spiral to begin with - and then the draft penalties made it infinitely worse...

...as I have mentioned before, he never said it was going to easy - and always said that there was a number a years of hardship to go thru before we to be competitive, the mans got another year on his contract to run - he wasn't ousted when challenged so give him his final year...

That's heartening DOA. What's more they are hardly going to give you any 'spin' as detractors claim they give to the media. The young players do seem to be unified and do seem to enjoy each other's company. I'm hoping any prospective changes don't rock that particular boat in any way. It is vital the kids are all keen and looking out for each other.

You can believe that if you really, really want. I'll be realistic.......we can do alot better. You know it, I know it.

What's amazing is that these people are still around - with the same old dumb excuses. Any other coach would have done better.

Where did I say or even suggest that pagan is the the only person responsible for our situation? It has nothing to do with bagging pagan - I was merely responding to your statement that no other coach could have done better. To do so excuses pagan from any of the crap that we have dished up over the previous few years.

As for facilities - What facilities are you talking about? its really not that far a walk to the gym/pool at melbourne uni is it? Certainly I think princess park is closer to the facilities at melb uni than say Arden st. I'd also suggest that PP has a better surface than arden st and there is the additional benefit of a decent running track within very close proximity to the ground itself (ie outside it).

edit: Had we brought in another coach at 1/2 pagans salary (still decent for a senior coach), we would have had an extra 1mill+ to have been spent on facilities

Sounds good. I'm getting excited!

COME

ON

YOU

BLUES

_________________
Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

I think our CEO is under enough pressure without you trying to undermine him.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,865 ... 11,00.html

New media friendly Pagan?

Pagan is damned if he does or damned if he doesen't by alot of posters on this site.

Sure he uses cliches alot, but given the hell he and this club has been through recently, at least he is trying to be positive.

Next season is his ultimate test.

I ask you this, if Pagan gets good results during the next season, will that make you happy?

I think he is on a hiding to nothing. It would seem that it wont make a difference what results or improvements occur, the writing is on the wall for the anti Paganers on this site....

BTW I am neither a supporter nor critic of him, but I'm willing to see what he can do next season.....

Good to see the new fan friendly pagan at work at training yesterday. I thought he was waiting to be asked out for lunch when he approached us plebs at one stage

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Ich bein ein Carltonian

Offer Pagan all the weak excuses you want Brock Landers but I'll offer him the same leniency he affords the players.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I'm raring for him to go as well...whens he leaving?....
He probably has changed his attitude however I suspect its more about keeping his job than altering his style...saying all that though its good to hear the players are happy and going to get some enjoyment out of the new training regime.
I think Barry Mitchells role is equally important in developing our youth for the seniors and I hope that he and Pagan have sorted their differences and can work together....Denis is only caretaking for the next coach while he sees out his contract and I hope he sits back and lets others who will long term make decisions.....

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Your saying that next season is his ultimate test? What test is that?

simple law of averages would mean that we will improve given the number of draft picks accumulated.

After this season we should never complain about accumulation of early draft picks again. In terms of top 25 picks we already have murphy (pick 1), walker (pick 2), kennedy (pick 4), russell (pick 9), wiggins (pick 15) Bower (pick20) stevens (pick 25) and hartlett (pick 25) - add to that 3 f/s players who would all be rated 2nd round or better when drafted (blackwell, waite, whitnall) and picks 1, 17 and 19 this year.

That already makes 14 players - and then you have a few handy additions in simpson, fevola, thornton

Yet most experts and many posters are STILL predicting that we will finish bottom 4 and possibly nab yet another priority pick (ie picks 2, 4 and 20, and possibly picks 1, 2/3 and 18) before we are ready to compete in the finals again.

By all means, the coach and the club should carry a positive outlook into each new season - and if pagan does well then great. However, there is absolutely no way we should overlook the shit performances that he has been responsible for overseeing in the previous few years.

The test is to see what Pagan can do:

(a) after having a few years of development of the players under his wing
(b) using the devlopment and experience gained of the players into a positive attacking game plan.
(c) Taking risks
(d) Trying to mend any bridges with the playing group
(e) Performing under the knowledge that the knives are firmly planted in his back.

I didn't say anything about draft picks, I just want to see how Pagan will react to the pressure. He could simply sit back and do nothing and guarnatee his removal or he could be proactive and change things around, to give the supporters and the club some semblance of belief that the pain of his first few years as coach is over.

If there are changes (improvements) to the game style next year should that be attributed to primarily to the new coaching appointments rather the Denis who has had 4 years to implement a modern day working game style and failed? Interesting.

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There's so much I could say...

The new coaching appointments should help Pagan adopt a changed/improved plan. Pagan would also be giving a fair bit of input into it as well and would logically have to take a more flexible approach given his shaky tenure as coach.

You could look at it in reverse in that the coaching staff he had previously either accepted the playing style or where unwilling to make any changes as they were all "yes" men. The new appointments in general are not going to be yes men, they will bring about positive changes in gameplan etc. Its about how Dennis embraces that positivity and change thats the key.