As far as the AFL was concerned, Elliott = Target.
Some of these people must have thought they'd won tattslotto when we got caught.

I know this is difficult for you to comprehend Duke but Essendon* and Melbourne suffered similar penalties to Carlton.
Did they spend 5 years at the bottom?

I'd suggest most clear thinking people would understand that our list management prior to and post the draft penalties were the biggest problem. Our list was poor by the end of 2002, the draft penalties just exascerbated the rot.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Look out - here come those "clear thinking people" again...

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Bill O'Reilly uses that 'clear thinking people' line a lot.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

They're a bit like rocking horse shit around here.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Whoa there a minute! Similar Penalties?? No way - no one...repeat...no one has and will ever have the kind of penalties that were inflicted upon the Carlton Football Club....log on to www.matthewlloyd.com.au and www.jameshird.com.au and think about what you've said.

No, I'm a 'Big Picture' person - 'Clear Thinkers' are a bunch of wankers!!

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end of message

My understanding is that their are many on the AFL Commission at the time who said we got off lightly - this includes "The Spew" as well.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Exactly - they're vindictive slags at AFL house.

No other sports governing body would penalise the member and viewing public more than our wonderful bunch of arseholes .

At least the NRL team was allowed to compete on-field over the duration of the penalties and just had premiership points deducted.

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end of message

Don't forget that Ron Evans was the President of Essendon* when their breaches occurred but because he was Chairman of the AFL at the time they made the then Essendon* President David Shaw take the rap, whatever happened their was a lot of "fluidity" about the actual timing of Essendon*'s breaches and their can be no doubt that Evans was President during the AFL sanctioned amnesty period when nearly ALL clubs were guilty of salary cap breaches.

Ron Evans was therefore - the acused and his own jury and executioner. The Wet Lettuce Leaf Industry in Australia went into meltdown.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Melbourne.

Penalised their first pick in the 1999 draft which was given to Fremantle.
Penalised their first 3 picks in the 2000 draft.
Fine $ 350,000 plus another $250,000 suspended.

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 44714.html

Essendon*.

Penalised their first 2 picks in the 1999 draft.
First pick was pick 45.

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 44714.html

Carlton.

2002. First pick utilised pick 17
Next pick 45 (Kade Simpson)

2003. First pick utilised Andrew Walker (Pick 2)
Next pick No.35 (swapped for Heath Scotland)

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I think it is important to note that the 2nd and 3rd round penalties in the 2002ND were suspended from breaches found out in 2000 (incurred 1998 to 1999).

So we lost Pick 1 and 2 in the 2002ND because of the 'Black Friday' breaches, with Pick 2 corresponding to our first round pick.

Thereafter, the penalties relate to the suspension. Our second round pick should have been lost but wasn't due to the French trade; our third round pick was lost. Simpson was the first 4th round pick; our first.

In the same vein, about $57k of the $930k in fines was suspended from the earlier breach.

Exactly Molsey.
Our penalties issued in 2002 were very similar to Melbournes however our monetary penalty was greater due to persistent cheating.
It's the carry over from suspended penalties which made it worse.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

his son is/was also big wig at JB Were. James Hird put in some very long hours as a stock broker to earn his salary while somehow playing full time footy.

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I support Carlton, Fulham and I'm an accountant - my mate calls me a 3 time loser.

I've put the work into a Blueseum article for anyone who is interested:

http://www.blueseum.org/cfc/tiki-read_a ... ticleId=19

Happy to take comments / criticism publicly or via PM,

M

Well done Molsey.
Puts straight a few misconceptions.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Thanks Molsey. The thought of it all still makes me feel physically sick.

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Ich bein ein Carltonian

Kudos for doing it Mols, but I just don't want to look. Just yet.

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

I fully understand WBY - its not pleasant reading. To have $1m and 6 picks ripped away from you (with one sort of 'given' back) - right when the Club needed to rebuild - is painful reading. But I've tried to do it in a factual, even way, and in my mind, when you do it that way, we deserved the whole kit & kaboodle thrown at us.

Ultimately though that wasn't the intent - we will argue whether it was too severe until we can no longer remember the penalties. the intent is to put the background and outline of the story in a single spot as a reference point - who knows, maybe that will sustain the argument even longer.

I agree Molsey. We did the crime blah, blah, blah.

My issue is that the penalties the AFL had in place meant nothing to Jack - he was a law unto himself.

There should have been a means to remove boards and Presidents who oversaw more than one salary cap offence.

There was no personal fine, no jail terms for indescretions, just punishment of players, staff, supporters and future players. I think they're the ones who should have been protected.

What if Jack had stayed on as President and did it AGAIN? $10M fine and no draft picks for 4 years?

The AFL should have seen the writing on the wall and done something about the penalties.