I like the idea of having revolving captains Synbad but then you get people saying "it's to Stkilda like " blah blah. The fact of the matter is we are still a sh!t side and we have been sh!t for 5 years! Look at Stkilda and look at us now. StKilda are killing us on and off the field.It's no ones fault but the recruiters, coaches MC's and Board members fault for f#cking it all up in lates 90's ans early 2000's that we have
A) No leadership what's so ever.....
B)A big gap in experience and talent between 25-30 years of age.

Only now are we seeing some potential come through and that still is not enough to get us out of the sh!t....
It's not Whitnall's fault we are sh!t and we have no one to play down back.
Can you believe it ? It's a f*cking joke that we have no one apart from Thornton who can play downback! It's match Comitee's fault that Whitnall wil be on the bike. It shouldv'e been SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT 4 years ago but hey we have no other choice coz we got f#ck all talent! That's what the truth is!!!!
WHERE'S THIS FRICKEN NEW TICKET???

Achilles i agree we dont have much between 25 and 30.
also that there is a lack of leadership...ive been saying ot for a while..

It might not be Lances fault that he is on a bike or whatever ... but the problem with Lance is that he was a gun junior.. and he thought his natural ability would take him places without doing the REAL HARD WORK..

Unfortunately for Lance footy has never changed so much as it has changed in the past 5 years.
Its changed more in that time than it probably has changed in the previous 50 years.. and those changes have left a guy like Lance exposed...

Because he doesnt have the body and he didnt have the WILL to reinvent himself till about a year ago.. its a case of too little.. too late for him.
His body isnt warrior hard.. like say McGrath changed his into.... so into his mid and late 20s LKance was always going to struggle for not doing the work he should have done from 18 through to 25... his body and his mind are not conditioned to todays football toughness..

Thats where Lance runs out of credits...

Its a tough caper this footy... just ask McGrath... who did EVERYTHING to reinvent what he was because of what football meant to him.
He was never on the big money.. he was a role model for the kids.. maybe lacked some polish... (Barnaby too) but you can never accuse them of letting their teamates down in their preparation to be the best they possibly could.

Did everything possible to be AFL footballers..

Lance may have talent... but he lacks the gift of being a winner..
You dont want a bloke captaining your football side who has wasted whatever talent God gave him and was unwilling to work on his waeknesses.. it rubs off...!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

SA Blue wrote



You're right SA Blue...don't let fools belittle your intelligence. I know what you heard and read and the authors of those opinions is all the credence you need to back up your comments. Those who do not want to consider what was said and considered over the last 6 months, don't want to face reality....but it was said and discussed with conviction by those that have an impartial opinion.

Some Carltonians don't like Lance playing CHB, but that's no reason to belittle him; he is picked to play that position. He can play forward too.

God help me (and all the little brains that exist that want Lance out) if Lance wasn't playing for us. FFS there is no alternative, no better than Lance...so love the one you've got. He is not the problem at Carlton; he can play forward or defense till our kids grow up. In short, he has an important role to play for this club over the next 2 years, and will be a great influence and support of our kids.

I speak with a lot of people from the other side (media and supporters of the other 15 teams), and those that degrade Whitnall don't come from the other side of the fence, they come from this side...yeah the so called Carlton 'supporters'. I callt ehm ferals.

Don't turnyour back SA...their is a few amongst us that are...likely to stab you in the back.... it is in their nature to turn on their own.

Yes SA Blue, there are Carlton supporters that choose to pervert the facts and jump on the agenda that puts them in the middle of the universe. Egocentric? That is an understatement.

Synbad wrote



Get real Synbad..you know what SA Blue is talking about. Stop acting dumb, and say something constructive about Whitnall; at least acknowledge what the scribes say, regardless if it not aligned with your non important viewpoint (from a big picure perspective). You know which scribe said what....HINT...it wasn't Fatprick Smith.

Who do you think should take Whitnall's position in the top 22?

Who do you think should be captain?

Do you not consider Whitnall as a top 50 player in 2007?

Mate, don't bother answering the questions...I don't care...because you're likely to degrade some more Carlton footballers along the way to make your point ....unless you have something constructive to add, don't bother as I'm not inviting an insult...but I do expect an uncooth response nevertheless.

Just a little common sense is all I ask, a bit of constructive criticism...I don't appreciate Carlton players being stabbed in the back by their own...so its times like this when I question what your worth is to the club. Stick by your team...I mean it's not that you suffer from short man's syndrome...but you sound like it.

Remember this...Whitnall is much more important to Carlton Football Club than Synbad, regardless of what Synbad says about this.

Did you know Syndab... there's more than 2 groups vying for control of the club...and the one you're talking about (sorry...that one you've heard of) is taking a long time to put together a ticket as there are many prospective candidates who have knocked back the offer of association...doesn't mean that it wont succeed or not...but I haven't seen your name in any of the lists...so you like to be the centre of attention...well not at the expense of Carlton players please.

There's shitlaods more going on than you're suggesting...and I really don't know what you're suggesting to be honest...are you saying that a new board will fix our problems?...well that's what I'm reading...

...but if you feel that a new board is going to turn this club around, then why don't you just add the condition for success is the delisting of Whitnall. (to cover your arse)...because I keep hearing from you that Whitnall is the blame for our woes, but then it's the previous board, and then it's the current board, then....who knows....you're a fence sitter and a back stabber.

Give me some facts, substance, acknowledge SA's information, add something constructive...and right now, I'm not interested in reading a 6'3" grown up man sobbing with tha claim that..."I say what I say because I care about my club, and I wont be happy till all is good again"....yeah right...woe is me...you can fool the people sometime, but you can't fool all the people....!

Whilst I value some of your input, but hanging shit on Carlton and Carlton players is not good for the club...that's all I'm saying.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Everything i say is substance...

Lance is not AA...
He isnt top 3 in anything.
He has not done the most he could have.
He lacks in quite a few areas that are a pre requisite in todays football genre... (unlike Neil Balme in his )

Im not a feral.. i love my club...

For me to sit there and accept whats been happening over five years and cross my fingers .. toes and pray for something to change...

The board/ president to become competent.. (all of a sudden)
The coach to understand modern day football.. (all of a sudden)
Lance to run and jump .. (all of a sudden)

Its just not me mate.. im what you might call a realist...
Its either something or its not...

Lance isnt...

Smorgon isnt

Denis isnt...

Lets not pretend...!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Ding Ding and it's on!

Nah its not on... too easy if it was...

_________________
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The facts are that Lance won our B&F this year and finished 3rd in our B&F last year. He is our only player to finish top 3 in our B&F in the past two years.

Please don't try to rewrite history Synbad as your credibility will suffer. You may say that Lance is the cause of our problems. I say that the fact that we don't have players better than Lance is the cause of our problems.

At the end of the day we have to win games to win the flag. I don't care if this person trains well or that person talks well in the media. I just want to win some bloody games!!!

All I heard was...





Oh and Synners... I'm going to go all CG on you and ask you to have a look at the TBV link in this post.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Lance in my opinion wasnt one of the best 3 players at our club last season...

Thats my opinion... thats all..

Yours and the MCs was he was our best player last season...

We differ..
Ps i dont think our MC knows what its doing either...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Does that post go back to when you had pimples???

Geez the world changes doesnt it???

so did this game and this club...

Anyway keep looking back ill look forward for us...

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ACHILLES



No it's not on!

It's not on to degrade a required player.

It's not on!

Synbad wrote



Lets not pretend that Kennedy is going to kick bags of goals in 2007 and is ready to call CHF his at 20yo.

Lets not pretend that there is an abundance of experience at the club.

Lets not pretend that there is an abundance of leadership at the club.

Lets not pretend that Lance was not the leader of our club in 2006.

Lets not pretend that Bower, Flint and Setanta are perfect to hold the KP in the backline.

Lets not pretend that Whitnall is not ideally suited as a forward for CFC in 2007.

Lets not pretend that Lance is the reason for our wooden spoons.

Lets not pretend that Lance has no value in our first 22 in 2007.

Lets not pretend that we are better off without Lance in 2007.

Lets not pretend that Lance can't be a better player than he was in 2002,3 ans 4.

Lets not pretend that whatever happened in the last decade will be worth considering in 2007.

Lets not pretend that Fevola's indescretions in Ireland are going to matter in 2007.

Look, we've got what we've got, and we've got to make do with what we've got in 2007. We pick our best 22 and we develop all the kids. If Lance is of no value to the team or the kids' development, well lets not pretend and tell me what the solution is....and we'll judge that.

Lance is not our future...he is our present! That's what we deal with.

Same goes with Smorgon and Denis. The only difference is that we can't change our list with a chequebook anymore, but we sure can change a stagnant uninspiring board and coach with one.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

OK. Thanks for conceding. I win.

Synbad wrote



Synbad wrote



I'm looking forward to him continuing to commit with the maturity he has shown in the last 2 years.

Synbad wrote



Synbad wrote



Well tell me which 3 players were better than Lance in 2006, and why...I'm interested in substance.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Bondi so it is on???

Ok.. so Lance is the epitomy of a winner is he???
He puts everything into extracting (i love that word) the best out of himself and has a proud of history of it has he?
He was a great leader this year was he??...
so you dont bag required players.. does that mean you bag players not required??

So when Lance gets the A you will bag him if i understand what youre trying to say???.
Experience at the club????
Did you know that Rumsfeld was also working under Reagan??..
Kennedy puts in... week in week out.. thats his style.. to play hard... Lance doesnt..
So Lance is suited as a forward????...what kind of forward??? in the pocket???

Where???
Lance did have a value to this club... it was called a draft pick...!!!
Fevola???.. but FEVOLAAAAAAAAA is a matchwinner.. and besides he did get called up to go to Ireland..
Can you imagine Lance playing Gaelic Footy???

Or even worse .. dancing with the stars??

why cant you imagine an elite sports man doing those things???

Cos its Lance right!!!?????

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

For the next target no doubt.

Your FOS sunshine.




Anyway, here's something positive ..... (for those who actually know what the word means) .......... only 10 days until Carlton Christmas. Yeah baby!!



...... and who really gives a crap who's captain next year as long as all 22 blokes who take the field each weak set a captains example and inspire their team mates to better things.

_________________
^^^

Don't worry Essendon* ....... We still hate your guts

^^^

Ok Hows Fevola. Scotland , Walker and Murphy for starters???

_________________
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Synbad wrote



Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Is what on?

Synbad...that's bad acid you're on? Semantics? Literal trickery?

Nah not touching that...too out there....not cohesive, and with respect to the analogies and creativity, an abandonment of what really matters...the crux of this discussion.

Yeah, I'll buy that he did carry collateral as a trade...but lets get to the crux of the issue you raise by starting with an answer with regards to the value of Lance.

Do you consider him to be worthy of holding a position in our first 22 in 2006 and 2007?

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

He is not a frontliner...
He is a guy like alot of our players that cant play a frontline position in a game.
The problem is some actually talk about him as if he is Jesus reincarnate.

He is a good ordinary footballer with an unathletic physique and a questionable work ethic.. who has done very well out of our club when it was flying and financially has made alot of money with minimal ouput and cannot.. should not be given a role model position of captain unless its part of a revolving captaincy.

As for his worth.. of course he could make our best 22.. as long as he is protected and out of the front line positions.. because a) he is not as good as the other key positions we have.. in fact Setanta finished the season off better than Lance did as a key defender.. and TBird was the main K defender..

so i ask again.. whats Lances role if he cant take the front line positions and he has to be protected by those around him (mostly kids) to not be exposed???

He should have been trade bait!

_________________
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Synbad wrote



Fevola...no doubt top 3
Scotland...no doubt top 3


Walker....good progress, but pigeonholed by Pagan...wasn't given the freedom to make it in the top 3.

Lance didn't have good first halfs against Croad and Richardson, they were mismatches sanctioned by the coach...but by jesus did he stand up in the second half of both of those games. Answer...he's a natural forward, and a stop gap backman.

Lance did fade in the last 6 weeks (in comparison to the previous games), but a season is made up of 22 games, and you have to consider the whole season and forget about selective memory stuff.

If one considers Lance as trade bait (as you do Synbad), then he must hold some value. I accept that he isn't perfect, but he has an important role to play in our first 22 in 2007; CHF or FP. That's the point...and there's no point in totally writing him off and degrading him for his past when we should be considering his achievements in 2006 and his value to CFC in 2007.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Synbad



Now you're talking.

Don't get too caught up in what Setanta did in the last 2 rounds. If Judd is considered the best footballer in the competition, then why wasn't he BOG in every game? You just can't make those types of comaprisons. There are reasons why one player shines when another doesn't, win or lose.

He's not a saviour, but he has an important role to play in a developing team...he has smarts (no one can deny) and is respected by the kids....sure they're young and impressionable, and he may have done things that both you and I will never know, to earn respect....whatever the case...he has respect, and is considered by most is having a special gift that makes up for his physical deficiencies...footy smarts...something we surely need with such an inexperienced squad.

To me it's not about winning finals in 2007 and 2008, it's about developing the kids, and I believe he can add value there.

Rotating or permanent captain...I don't give 2 hoots. The bottom line for me is 2007, and lets face it what alternative is there for captaincy? Not much.

We can find faults in all the candidates for the captaincy from season 2006: Fevola, Stevens, Lappin, Scotland.......and as for Murphy and Walker, they're too young and they are not Wayne Careys.

So you see, given our present situation we are beggars for captaincy and the choice is not so obvious...that's our predicament. Given this situation it's not absurd to consider Lance as captain, or Lappin, or Stevens, or Fevola...it's just the way it is....and that's not Lance's fault. In a way, he's not necessarily the best captain, but he's surely is in the right place at the right time to be considered for the role.

Fact.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue