How exactly did we go "backwards" when Lance was captain (which was actually for four weeks, from rounds 12-15)? What does "backwards" even mean in these terms? Who measures and judges it? Is 4 games a sufficient period of time to even make a judgment in any case?! It's a ridiculous claim that Carlton and Lance somehow went "backwards" when Lance was captain, unless it can somehow actually be proven that this was the case (which is very highly unlikely).

Lance captained us for four games. Three of these games we lost by 5 goals or less, two by 3 goals or less. Geelong thumped us but we could have had a combination of Nathan Buckley/Steve Waugh/Roy Keane as captain and it wouldn't have made any difference. We also didn't lose the other games because Lance was captain: the Kangaroos match we should've won but had a shocking last quarter, the Bulldogs overran us as expected in the last quarter and Brisbane kept us in the game by their inaccuracy. I doubt that Kouta being captain during these games would have made things any different but again I suppose there's no real way of knowing.

But I hardly think it can be claimed (unless you have some sort of evidence from the specific period in which Lance was captain) that Lance and Carlton went "backwards" whilst Lance was captain.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

I wouldn't have thought that any captain, realistically, has the absolute unanimous support of the rest of the playing group, even if publicly players would never speak out against the captain...

Anyway BlueWorld, who would you have as captain then? Who do the players want?

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

How do you deduce this?

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dane's trolling again

From someone who knows some of the players.

He may not need unanimous support but he'd need to have the support of most of the playing group, which he would not have.

atm I can't tell you who they want as captain. If I hear anything I'll let you know.

Good idea about the vote.. if anyone can bare watching a match from this year on tape again they will see that every time Fevola does something - all players rush to him and congratulate him. He lifts the team. Now I think he is unpredictable and could go off the rails - but the enthusiasm he generates is there for all to see with VISUAL EVIDENCE.


People can say ooh .. but lance plays down back and doesn't get an opportunity to inspire... well he did kick goals this year - and you rewind the tape and look at how many players flocked to him to congratulate him.


Look, one of my favourite moments in Carlton's history was when Lance kicked that 50 metre goal in the 99 preliminary. I know he has done good for the club up to 2000. But i don't think it is this club's job to carry a slow and un-athletic footballer for 6 years and counting because he did some good things in 1999/2000.


I agree with Synbad on pretty much all his points on the need for speed in today's football. 2000 is not the same as 2007.



I am going to re-watch a few matches from this year and look at Whitnall in detail. I did it for the west coast match. I will look at the Hawthorn match next. I believe in the West Coast match he was easily exploited in the second half and Carlton didn't have a plan b for the situation.

Surprise Surprise, West Coast players running off their oponents.

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Ich bein ein Carltonian

Fevola should be captain.

If after a year Fevola has done a bad job you take the captaincy off him - The club won't die. The club won't go further into debt. Every player on the list won't want to leave. Membership won't drop to 5000. The sun will still come up in the morning, the sun will still set in the evening.

The upside of giving it to Fevola is too great not to risk it. Of course the club will be too weak to appoint him and will give it to the tub of lard instead.

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"Davies could eventually become a player of Judd's ability" - Paganite03 Click here to see for yourself!

Are you being fair dinkum?

The upside is great but is he mature enough?

We dont have any real leaders at present.

I thought Thornton had it in him but not after this years contract negotiations.

Regardless of how much I may defend Lance doesnt mean I think he's essentially the right bloke, just Im sick of seeing him bagged for the sake of having a whipping boy.

If Kouta still wanted it I say leave it there and appint a better leadership group than one consisting of blokes like Prenda.

You need first rate footballers and first rate people to lead the club.

If the club were to appoint Fev I would hope they sat him down and said - "three years ago you were out the door and turned it around - if we give you this honour can you lift yet another notch - not just on the field but off field as well".

My biggert concern was if to appoint this guy is he will get suspended or if someone gets under his skin on the field and he loses it, it will have a bearing on the entire team.

To be honest until the club can get its act together off the field its a pretty big ask to see it happening on the field. We need to know the people in charge making the decisions are the right people so we can trust in the people the place in charge on the field.

People will be in positions to lead the club forward soon.

Mark3 i agree with you on that post... we need to trust the people to make the right decisions ... at the moment thats not the case.
We have a loss of faith in the decisions being made and that doesnt help our cause.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Shit now Im gonna have another half a dozen beers so we can start disagreeing again .

Your right though but dont read my post in case you misread it. HeHe.

Ok. well last night i re-watched the Hawthorn match to look in detail at the

contribution of Whitnall.



I have picked this match as it is one of the handful of matches from 2006 that I have kept a copy of. Most have been deleted. I don't want to be
seen picking on Whitnall - it is just that I want what is best for the club
and I don't think Whitnall as sole captain in 2007 provides the type of
leadership Carlton needs.



If he is a joint captain...well I will have to rationalise it.. but if they give him sole leadership role I know for certain that this club is fU***d and will
go nowhere in 2007.



I think the Hawthorn game confirm that Whitnall has serious deficiencies -
especially when used in the backline.

WHITNALL'S MATCH UP'S

first quarter - whitnall started on dixon. the match up lasted most of the first quarter.




Note - Whitnall at no time was asked to mark the KEY FORWARDS for

Hawthorn. ie FRANKLIN AND WILLIAMS. The task on Franklin was

given to Corey McGrath - yes Corey had to play against Buddy Franklin

and give away 10 -20 cms... and he did a reasonable job. Whitnall was

never given this task despite being closer to Franklin's height. (I am

saddened that Corey in not on the 2007 list... but i am sure Whitnall as

captain can take on Buddy next year instead).... or maybe not....



Another young defender in Thornton was given the job on Williams.


2nd quarter- 4th quarter - whitnall vs murphy


Whitnall instead took arguably the fifth or six best forward in Murphy.

Murphy is a youngster and Whitnall did nothing to impact on the match in

my opinion.


The drive that one expects from a so-called loose defender was
generated by Lappin and Sentanta instead.


Hawthorn's fourth and 5th? goal were generated in part by loose marking

from Whitnall. In the second quarter, Lappin tackled Whitnall's opponent -

whitnall was nowhere to be seen. (time when this happened - 7 min left in quarter)


In the third quarter - 12:25 mark - waite had to tackle Whitnall's

opponent - Murphy. Whitnall, meanwhile, was flat footed and

had expended too much energy in the previous contest.ie - teammates

having to cover Whitnall's defiencies in endurance.... hence I would have

Whitnall coming on and off the bench in 2007.





One could go on - and i dislike having to point this out - i want to praise every carlton player that puts on that famous guernsey, BUT we are kidding ourselves if we think a guy that takes the 4th -6th best forward most weeks is deserving of leading this club in 2007. A Carlton captain should be treated with respect - and i don't think our opponents will respect Whitnall as our captain. sad but true.




re: Backline - while i am talking about the backline - full marks to Sentanta for destroying Barry Hall in round 22. How many youngsters with less than 30 games experience can say they can beat arguably the best player in the comp? not many.

That victory to Sentanta should give him plenty of confidence for 2007. I am looking forward to those dashing runs from sentanta in 2007.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Don't worry Tap if Pagan still calls the shots next year Carrazzo will be picking up Franklin.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Ease up mate... I mean who would you put on Franklin?

195 cms with the pace of a midfielder... it's a tough matchup.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Thornton, Walker, O'Hailpin, Fisher, Waite. Any of those ahead of McGrath but hey there's been worse. Teague on Stafford, Livo on S. Burgoyne.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I'd put Lachlan Hansen on Franklin.

But that's just me.

we wont need anyone on Franklin.... Gibbs will be tearing them a new one.

I'm with you JohnM.

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There is no footy god

Hansen will be a bomber next year