Fevola at pick 38 - who do we congratulate ?

camel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:27 am

I know Fev was no angel or model player in his time under Brittain and Parkin, but I don't buy the poor attitude line completely. There is no denying Fevola has improved under Pagan, but Fev used to chase hard and put attacking pressure on his opponents before Denis arrived. Pagan has lifted Fev's workrate no doubt, but it's not like Denis was starting with a blank canvas.

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

AGRO wrote:

Shane O'Sullivan much maligned on these forums for his recruiting.

Unfortunatley most of the time his hands were tied by the Match Committee (ie. David Parkin's philosophy) of recruiting mature bodies from the SANFL and WAFL (who mostly turned out to be duds) or mature bodied TAC players who had no upside like Chatfield and Vance :roll:

.

When O'Sullivan was allowed his choice of player they have generally turned out OK - and we have him to thank for plucking Simpson and Fisher from the 2002 National Draft, and dont we have to be entirely thankful for that - he should be retrospectively given a sainthood for his contribution there. :wink:

Another draft thread about recruiting and my old mate ShaneO,... I was one of his strongest critics......credit where its due though he did pick Fev as a 17 year old and I guess more as come out about how his hands were tied by Parkin and others.....
The draft of 2000 probably finished OSullivan as a recruiter but he appears to be doing well at looking after young players on the welfare side of things and I think the Ohailpins success obviously has a fair bit to do with how they have been looked after by ShaneO and the club.....

Parkins abilities as a recruiter were shown to be limited when he wanted us to take Nathan Brown at the expense of Andrew Walker....

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

camelboy wrote:

I know Fev was no angel or model player in his time under Brittain and Parkin, but I don't buy the poor attitude line completely. There is no denying Fevola has improved under Pagan, but Fev used to chase hard and put attacking pressure on his opponents before Denis arrived. Pagan has lifted Fev's workrate no doubt, but it's not like Denis was starting with a blank canvas.

Completely agree. If you look at Fev's first 41 games under Parkin/Brittain he would have been lucky to have been given 50% game time in those matches. In that time he kicked 66 goals, IMO a great effort from the equivalent of only about 20 games in total from a young developing player.

Trouble is the crowd hated him from day one and the coaching staff had absolutely no faith in him, in those 41 games you could count on one hand how many where he started on the ground.

Lace Out · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:00 pm

The Fev was an absolute gun as a junior, it was always his maturity that worried recruiters.

I think it was in the under 15's that he broke his arm at about RD7 and had already amassed 80-90 goals :shock:

This included a hall of 25 goals ten behinds and 17 HANDBALLS as he was told off the week before for not giving it off enough. I think he kicked 19 goals that game....

I remember speaking to Adam Mcphee's uncle before he got drafted and i mentioned how much i rated Fevola.
He then told me about the time Adam's team played Fevs team the stingrays.
The game ws even at half time with Fevola spending the first half in the ruck.
He was then switched to FF in the 2nd half and went on to kick about 10 goals to blow them away!

I have spoken to a few people that played with or against him and they all say the same thing, if he took a mark anywhere up to 60 metres out they would all start walking back to the middle for the bounce as he would never miss......

It was just about him believing he could do it in the big time, and realising he had to work harder than ever for it, and in the end he made it....

Clayman · **Joined:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am **Posts:** 1770

camelboy wrote:

There is no denying Fevola has improved under Pagan, but Fev used to chase hard and put attacking pressure on his opponents before Denis arrived.

I don't think I ever saw him chase before Pagan arrived. He was lazy and didn't play for the team.

Pagan should get all credit for the turn around. Remember Fev dancing out of the his first meeting with Pagan and shouting, "The coach loves me, the coach loves me". This gave Fev a lot of confidence.

In Pagan's first year, Pagan would drag him when he looked lazy and then I remember the Fev starting to chase and tackle and lift his work rate. Pagan started giving him credit at the after match press conferences and he just kept improving.

Fev's forward defensive pressure is something Pagan would be proud of.

camel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:23 pm

Clayman wrote:

camelboy wrote:

There is no denying Fevola has improved under Pagan, but Fev used to chase hard and put attacking pressure on his opponents before Denis arrived.

I don't think I ever saw him chase before Pagan arrived. He was lazy and didn't play for the team.

I don't deny Fev needed to lift and improve his general attitude to being an AFL footballer. But I maintain the "Fev never chased" line is a myth. The point is Pagan wouldn't have kept him if he'd not seen something to work with. And Pagan is not one to get fooled by a bloke that can bag a few lazy goals.

Lurker Blue · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:31 pm

Clayman wrote:

Pagan should get all credit for the turn around.

Perhaps, just maybe, Fev should be given some of the credit as well?

Clayman wrote:

Remember Fev dancing out of the his first meeting with Pagan and shouting, "The coach loves me, the coach loves me". This gave Fev a lot of confidence.

In Pagan's first year, Pagan would drag him when he looked lazy and then I remember the Fev starting to chase and tackle and lift his work rate. Pagan started giving him credit at the after match press conferences and he just kept improving.

Very much a confidence player is Fev.

The difference being now he has enough self-confidence to play well, without people needing to talk him up.

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

camelboy wrote:

Clayman wrote:

camelboy wrote:

There is no denying Fevola has improved under Pagan, but Fev used to chase hard and put attacking pressure on his opponents before Denis arrived.

I don't think I ever saw him chase before Pagan arrived. He was lazy and didn't play for the team.

I don't deny Fev needed to lift and improve his general attitude to being an AFL footballer. But I maintain the "Fev never chased" line is a myth. The point is Pagan wouldn't have kept him if he'd not seen something to work with. And Pagan is not one to get fooled by a bloke that can bag a few lazy goals.

I saw Fev do plenty of team oriented things in his first 41 games under Parkin/Brittain and still remember defending him in the crowd at Princes Park against some of the more feral Carlton supporters. Trouble was all people would remember were the low points and not the high points of his game. Despite his superstardom now there are still sections of the Carlton supporter base who do that.

Clayman · **Joined:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 am **Posts:** 1770

camelboy wrote:

Clayman wrote:

camelboy wrote:

There is no denying Fevola has improved under Pagan, but Fev used to chase hard and put attacking pressure on his opponents before Denis arrived.

I don't think I ever saw him chase before Pagan arrived. He was lazy and didn't play for the team.

I don't deny Fev needed to lift and improve his general attitude to being an AFL footballer. But I maintain the "Fev never chased" line is a myth. The point is Pagan wouldn't have kept him if he'd not seen something to work with. And Pagan is not one to get fooled by a bloke that can bag a few lazy goals.

You must get the Fev chase cam in Canberra. A lot different to the the games I saw live (not on TV). He frustrated me and my Carlton fan buddies through many games due to his lack of effort.

Brittain didn't want to sack him due to his hard chasing and forward defensive pressure. He was lazy and would never apply a 2nd effort.

buzzaaaah · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:31 am **Posts:** 17897

Fev's attitude was poor. He didnt chase much, he would lead under the ball and drop his head. He had oodles of talent and that kept him alive as an AFL player.

His relationship with an older mature woman probably helped him as much as anything

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:45 pm

I remember Fev having 5 shots at goal in the 3rd quarter in a game against Hawthorn at OO early on in his career. You can tell then he was a very quick lead and had great potential.

The problem was he kicked 1.4. It was always his kicking for goal I was worried about :shock:

timetodeliver2004 · **Joined:** Wed May 03, 2006 8:22 pm **Posts:** 816

It's actually a little known fact, but I was around the club before that draft and actually talked to the recruiting staff about Fev. There was doubt about his attitude but was able to convince them that he would be worth a shot with pick 38.

Congratulate me if you want - but it was for the love of the club.

camel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:53 pm

Clayman wrote:

You must get the Fev chase cam in Canberra. A lot different to the the games I saw live (not on TV). He frustrated me and my Carlton fan buddies through many games due to his lack of effort.

That old chestnut. You'll have to do better than that. Besides, it's damn hard work taking a telly to the MCG, Princes Park, SCG, wherever ... if you didn't live in Melbourne you would understand what it's like to have to take a TV to the ground to see the game. What a foolish comment. FFS get over yourself!

I did say that Fev needed to improve, I just dispute claims that he NEVER chased and NEVER put in 2nd efforts before Pagan. Pagan's decision to retain Brendan has clearly shown Brittain would have been wrong to cut him. Why? According to you and your fan buddies Pagan must have only kept him on because "He was lazy and would never apply a 2nd effort". More likely Pagan was able to see things that you and your fan buddies couldn't. Thank goodness.

Perhaps Denis has Fev chase cam in Melbourne too.

:garthp:

bluebeard · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:28 pm

AGRO wrote:

Shane O'Sullivan much maligned on these forums for his recruiting.

Unfortunatley most of the time his hands were tied by the Match Committee (ie. David Parkin's philosophy) of recruiting mature bodies from the SANFL and WAFL (who mostly turned out to be duds) or mature bodied TAC players who had no upside like Chatfield and Vance :roll:

.

When O'Sullivan was allowed his choice of player they have generally turned out OK - and we have him to thank for plucking Simpson and Fisher from the 2002 National Draft, and dont we have to be entirely thankful for that - he should be retrospectively given a sainthood for his contribution there. :wink:

I am impressed with the addition of TONY JONES on your hate list.

Its shows that you are a man of the times...flexible to change and aware of your surroundings.

Hate lists should never stagnate...

AGRO · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:32 pm

Elwood Blues1 wrote:

AGRO wrote:

Shane O'Sullivan much maligned on these forums for his recruiting.

Unfortunatley most of the time his hands were tied by the Match Committee (ie. David Parkin's philosophy) of recruiting mature bodies from the SANFL and WAFL (who mostly turned out to be duds) or mature bodied TAC players who had no upside like Chatfield and Vance :roll:

.

When O'Sullivan was allowed his choice of player they have generally turned out OK - and we have him to thank for plucking Simpson and Fisher from the 2002 National Draft, and dont we have to be entirely thankful for that - he should be retrospectively given a sainthood for his contribution there. :wink:

Another draft thread about recruiting and my old mate ShaneO,... I was one of his strongest critics......credit where its due though he did pick Fev as a 17 year old and I guess more as come out about how his hands were tied by Parkin and others.....
The draft of 2000 probably finished OSullivan as a recruiter but he appears to be doing well at looking after young players on the welfare side of things and I think the Ohailpins success obviously has a fair bit to do with how they have been looked after by ShaneO and the club.....

Parkins abilities as a recruiter were shown to be limited when he wanted us to take Nathan Brown at the expense of Andrew Walker....

Not Fair Elwood - Shane O'Sullivan's only independent selection in the 2000 Draft was Trent Sporn, yep he got that one wrong. :wink:

Luke Livingston was selected as the next best KP tall in that draft (yes seriously) not the next best player - and we made the mistake of going for him. Pretty sure this was a Parko influenced selection.

Wiggo is still with us - and the others, Campbell, Beasy and O'Keefe well again - I dont think Shane O had much to do with - as his hands were tied by Parko's draft philosophy.

Probably not the best person to answer this question - but if Mr. Cazz is on line I am sure he can enlighten us - which I think he has done before on this subject. :wink:

AGRO · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:36 pm

TruBlueBrad wrote:

I remember Fev having 5 shots at goal in the 3rd quarter in a game against Hawthorn at OO early on in his career. You can tell then he was a very quick lead and had great potential.

The problem was he kicked 1.4. It was always his kicking for goal I was worried about :shock:

This was a problem in the early part of his career he was forever getting about 6 or 7 shots on goal a game and forever kicking 1 goal 4 or 2 goals 4.

His kicking is a huge confidence thing and if he was able to turn some of those games around in his earlier days who knows what could have happened.

Any Full Forward who can get 6 or 7 shots off on goal a game is worth perservering with - they are very rare beasts. :wink:

BIBI01 · **Joined:** Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:43 pm **Posts:** 322

credit must go to barry mitchell

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

AGRO wrote:

Elwood Blues1 wrote:

AGRO wrote:

Shane O'Sullivan much maligned on these forums for his recruiting.

Unfortunatley most of the time his hands were tied by the Match Committee (ie. David Parkin's philosophy) of recruiting mature bodies from the SANFL and WAFL (who mostly turned out to be duds) or mature bodied TAC players who had no upside like Chatfield and Vance :roll:

.

When O'Sullivan was allowed his choice of player they have generally turned out OK - and we have him to thank for plucking Simpson and Fisher from the 2002 National Draft, and dont we have to be entirely thankful for that - he should be retrospectively given a sainthood for his contribution there. :wink:

Another draft thread about recruiting and my old mate ShaneO,... I was one of his strongest critics......credit where its due though he did pick Fev as a 17 year old and I guess more as come out about how his hands were tied by Parkin and others.....
The draft of 2000 probably finished OSullivan as a recruiter but he appears to be doing well at looking after young players on the welfare side of things and I think the Ohailpins success obviously has a fair bit to do with how they have been looked after by ShaneO and the club.....

Parkins abilities as a recruiter were shown to be limited when he wanted us to take Nathan Brown at the expense of Andrew Walker....

Not Fair Elwood - Shane O'Sullivan's only independent selection in the 2000 Draft was Trent Sporn, yep he got that one wrong. :wink:

Luke Livingston was selected as the next best KP tall in that draft (yes seriously) not the next best player - and we made the mistake of going for him. Pretty sure this was a Parko influenced selection.

Wiggo is still with us - and the others, Campbell, Beasy and O'Keefe well again - I dont think Shane O had much to do with - as his hands were tied by Parko's draft philosophy.

Probably not the best person to answer this question - but if Mr. Cazz is on line I am sure he can enlighten us - which I think he has done before on this subject. :wink:

Yeah fair enough about Livo........Agro, I think Mr Cazz is fed up with hearing about 2000, ShaneO and especially my views on any of those matters...... :lol:

Siegfried · **Joined:** Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm **Posts:** 2864

camelboy wrote:

I don't deny Fev needed to lift and improve his general attitude to being an AFL footballer. But I maintain the "Fev never chased" line is a myth. The point is Pagan wouldn't have kept him if he'd not seen something to work with. And Pagan is not one to get fooled by a bloke that can bag a few lazy goals.

Might also have something to do with the fact that Pagan knew how little talent we had, and so had to hang on to anyone who had any talent at all. Hence also the speculative recruitment of Angwin.

By the way...Jars...top avatar! Can you get sound on that??? :lol:

Headplant · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:57 pm

Agree totally with camelboy on Fev in his early years, and these issues were discussed ad nauseum online in 2002 in particular. he had afew forum members critical of his head dropping but prepared to give him a go at improving himself.

Clearly Brittain did not have the ability to handle him, and Pagan did. I too am no fan of Pagan, but can credit him with handling Fevola.

Fevola did offer one percenters and 2nd efforts and chase downs in his early years ... bur not consistently, and fitness and work ethic were obviously serious issues which he has improved enormously.

If you never saw him chase or tackle or put in some 2nd efforts pre Pagan, live at the ground, then you were clearly unobservant, and/or letting perception influence your game vision.

Clearly none of us had any problem observing his dummy spits. :wink:

btw, I had little problem with his 1st half play vs Bombers, except that he couldn't buy a goal.

Fevola at pick 38 - who do we congratulate ?

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