Oh
My
God

Jbee, remind me never to hire you.

You are argumentative for the sake of it, when everyone else who read my post could see what was patently obvious.

KK was right... same shit different smell. We had ours taken, Collingwood wasted them.

Secondly, as far as "limitations".... I'd say that Matthew Allan and Justin Murphy, one an All-Australian and the other a top 3 B&F player, both have "limitations" that, compared to McGrath and Bannister, are in a different hemisphere. Allan and Murphy are proven AFL players, if given the right environment. Sheedy took a punt on guys he knew could play, but were down on their fortunes. To accomodate this, he cut 2 guys he knew wouldn't make it.

I'll move onto my "point" in a sec, but jbee, I don't know how old you are, but you've positioned yourself as the anti-Tyrant, and you just hang off my posts trying to pick fault. On this occasion, your antithesis is laughable and you seem dumb. My advise is to pick your battles more wisely.

Now, back to my point.

If we'd invested solely in youth, for successive drafts, it would have extended our run to glory by a couple of years, not killed any chance we had.

We picked 1 kid in the 2003 draft, and 6 in the rookie draft. 2 of those rookies were promoted, and at least 1 (and maybe Plemmo) will be promoted from that lot this year.

Of the other picks:

Mott and Kenna lasted one year.
Bowyer and Bannister will be lucky to survive the cut this year
DeLuca is honest but lacks significant polish. He might come good, and might not. He's, what I'd call, a decentish late pick. The others = hat.

Are we meant to be surprised that Bentick and Carrazzo are half decent? if we'd picked them in the National Draft, would we be disappointed?

The idea is, that late picks, though obviously no guarantee for ANYTHING, can come good. You take a young kid and there's a chance he'll grow and become anything. We already know that Bowyer and Bannister tried once and failed. Whats more, as we were already in the doledrums, what was the harm in just promoting youth for a few years? That puts pressure on blokes like Davies to stand up. In recent years, when we've used our raw kids, we've had some decent success: Fisher, Thornton, et.al. Why he turned from that policy surprises and disappoints me.

There are 3 kinds of AFL footballers:
1) good ones
2) ones that are good in good teams
3) shit ones

Since 2002, we've only had vacancies for type 1s. We should only be looking for type 1s. Blokes like Josh Mahoney try once (or twice) and fail, and come back to play a part in a gun team. Bannister could become an important figure in a Geelong, St.Kilda, West Coast etc. But for us? Just not what we need.

Now, ok, your pick 63 is a bit of a gamble anyway.. there's not a single scrap of certainty that your kid picked with pick 63 will become a type 1 player. But, then again, Bentick and Carrazzo (picked after Bannister), will be around MUCH longer on the list than Jordan. There's no co-incidence in that. Bloody none.

Now we're staring down the barrel of another spoon. And, not because we're TRYING to lose. its just because we're this poor and deserve it.

All we can do is try and salvage something out of this and try and pump some exposure into our kids and leave the blue collar delisting certainties to the footy wasteland where we found them.




and, just finally, I know why we picked Russell and not Egan (well, have a good idea why....), and I'm glad we did. I wasn't implying we should have picked Egan at all. I'm glad we have Russell, and he's exactly the kind of player we need.

The annoying thing for me, is that we're seeing some good signs in Egan, in a team as crap as ours, and we're not getting a chance to see Russell AT ALL.

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Love Cricket? Love me

Tyrant,

Your post was about learning from Collingwood. What exactly should we learn from them? You want Denis to play the kids, at this stage I can only see two that he could possibly play, Bryan and Russell. They will be played before the year is out.

At the same stage Collingwood has 5 blokes on their list who have not played a game and some have been on their list for 3 years. What exactly are we learning from Mick?

Denis took a punt on two blokes and Sheedy took a punt on two blokes past their prime. All four most likely won't be playing AFL football in two years. Nil all draw.

Some of your points are valid but some of them are way of the mark. By the way here is another fact: Bannister signed a two year contract last year so some club needs to take him on if you think he is not going to survive the cut. But the what the heck, I just quoted another DUMB FACT.

Flex- wwhat we should learn from Collingwood is that if the senior players arent up to it, drop them for kids. Collingwood dropped Woey a few weeks ago and are now playing guys like Davies, Iacobucci (made a good fist of that) etc.
Playing Scoots every week etc in place of Russel or Simpson or Davies is the WRONG APPROACH for the football club going forward.
Whilst I never advocating losing games- in fact I still reckon were a chance to win this week as we tend to like AAMI, playing kids in place of the older guys is seemingly etched into the mindset of the Collingwood MC but not ours.
It is pretty much the ACCEPTANCE aspect that the Pies have re: the crapness of their list that Pagan and the MC havent yet shown.


hat.

When does Justin Davies stop becoming a kid? He has had 6 opportunities already this year up to Round 9 to cement a spot in the team. This is his 4th season at senior level and he has had no major injuries that have set him back. Simpson has played 6 games this year which is more than the combined games of Iacobucci and Davies.

Our centre square set up in the 2nd quarter of the Demons game was De Luca, Bentick, Simpson and Walker. Up to round 6 this year you could argue that at some stage in those games we had an opportunity to win.

Collingwood have more untried kids than we have, I have already named them for you. Most of those kids have been on the list for two years.

At this stage Russell, Bryan and Blackwell are the only three that are missing out. Hartlett because of injury can't be considered yet and Raso would not get wet in a shower.

We will not win in Adelaide, Adelaide are a very good team.

Jbee, you either lack the ability to think laterally, or you have a very poor memory.

Ricky Mott was in the same boat, and he got chopped.

You cut them and pay them out. I'm sure Bannister's minimum wage isn't going to break the bank, or our salary cap in 2006.

And, Davies is still young in playing terms. He's played less than 50 games. He's under 23. He's not a regular in the side.

In playing terms he's young, and still needs development. Is he getting it? NO

he's played a few games this year as a floating forward pocket. To any moron with a TV remote, Davies is the kind of player who loses concentration and floats in and out of games. Its VERY EASY to do that when you're playing in a forward pocket in a structure that has at least 12 blokes in your area.

So, you can either sit on your hands with your YOUNG PLAYER or think "gee, that young Justin needs to learn to be accountable and concentration... what can I, Carlton Coach, do, to help him develop these skills.... I know! I'll teach him to play in defence, where he HAS to be switched on! He'll either never learn it, or he will, and become a consistent performer in the future.. even as a forward!"

Or, we keep dropping Davies for being "not good enough without ever testing him", and delist him at the end of the year, or trade him cheaply to another club with a more switched on coaching group.

Denis is making a mistake if he thinks he needs a team of players all with the same mindset. Its an impossibility. You can't find 22 Glen Archers... and what's more, you don't need 22 Glen Archers. In fact, he's better off from an organisational POV to have a team that's varied, and motivate them in different ways. Players that drop their head do it for a reason. it doesn't necessarily mean they hate the coach or hate the navy blue.

Denis can't afford with this list to set the bar and expect every kid to get their efforts about that. He should be investing effort into getting Davies et.al at that level via different means, with different incentives.

Because, if Bannister and Davies get cut at the end of the year, it WON'T be Bannister who'll come back to haunt us with another club. If anyone, it'll be Davies.

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Love Cricket? Love me

Tyrany, I got a warning for saying less than this. Take it easy son.

I hate having losses, people emotions come out and then petty little comments are thrown around. Play nice please.

Trigger happy moderating

You called Fevolaaaaaa a Fool.

I said he "seemed dumb" and his argument sucked. I didn't' say he was dumb.

Use your powers for good, please, not evil

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Love Cricket? Love me

Hey, noticed you HAVENT been warned officially Tyrant!

I wouldn't brag about NOT committing an injustice

Its like me telling my mum: "I might be a crap son, but at least I'm not a heroin addict or criminal"

hardly something to be proud of

BTW, PMs are for such comments, BC. If you had a point to make, beyond flexing your keyboard finger, you could have made it there.

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Love Cricket? Love me

You're slow on the up take if you can't figure out why I posted it.

It was a friendly warning to play nice, nothing else.

I don't mind personal attacks, people that resort to it have some sort of phobia or inadequacy. My method is to stick to the topic. Tyrant we agree to disagree on this one. Let sleeping dogs lie.

When Justin Davies can string two good games together then I will start taking notice. If Justin Davies applied himself like Eddie Betts who is also stuck in a forward pocket with 12 blokes around him then I would totally agree with you.

Love to have a great CHF Elwood, but they are pretty rare. I've always been in favour of going for the best talent, rather than a player for a position. In 2000 we used a #4 pick to get the best available tall forward, and Livo is never going to be a CHF. We need elite talent. Be great if that is Tredrea or Brown, but i'll take Judd or Ball. We've wasted too many draft picks on ordinary players. We need talent, whatever the size.

I'm just glad the ones we still have to bring in include a 1st and 2nd rounder, and a 3rd round who doesn't have question marks over his basic skills (a rarity among our draftees).

Suggesting we learn from the Pies is complete sacrilage in my book.If you were within arms length of me Death,you wouldnt have a head on your shoulders.I had a bit of time for you Death,but that is by far the worst post i have ever read on any Blue forum ever.Wash your mouth out.

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All my dangerous friends

FINALLY!!!

well, I think you'll find there's not a LOT we could learn from the pies, besides PLAYING RUSSELL!!!!!

I'm sure you can agree with that, Mick!

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Love Cricket? Love me

I was disappionted we didn't take Willits with our 1st pick he may not turn out as good as Russell but he is made for Pagans game plan. I would hope Fergus Watts or Ash Hanson would be targets for trades this year if not someone who can play his game plan or he can scrap it.

Fergus Watts would be a great pickup from the Crows(Ryan Murphy also) but I doubt the Crows would give him up for Lance, only Fevola.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Maric can't play CHF, he is primarily a ruckman, and that's where he played at Calder. When he was at Calder he was only relatively new to the game because he was a basketballer- so he never quite had the skills or pace to be anything but a ruckman.

Good post Tyrant wel written but not mock the Pies .. i live to mock the pies and will continue to mock em on a daily basis

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CFC TAC Squad everyone over 25 must be traded sounds like Loguns Run