Just flicking through the Blueseum and found this match report

B: 21 Barry Gill 20 Geoff Southby 30 Vin Waite
HB: 4 Bruce Doull 43 David McKay 24 Peter Fyffe
C: 46 John Warden 24 Bill Barrot 17 Brent Crosswell
HF: 3 Kevin Hall 34 Ian Robertson 5 Syd Jackson
F: 28 Peter Jones 25 Alex Jesaulenko 12 Barry Armstrong
Ruck: 2 John Nicholls (c) 1 Serge Silvagni 10 Adrian Gallagher
Res: 19 Ian Collins 22 Neil Chandler
Coach: Ron Barassi

Did Bruce Doull really wear the number 4 jumper early in his career?

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

He sure did.

Ended up changing to 11 as number 4 meant his locker was next to Nicholls, and he hated being near the media. The number 11 locker was further away.

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Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

What an amazing story, do you happen to know how many games/seasons he played in the number 4 jumper?

My memory of Bruce Doull dates back to the mid-70's, at that stage he had the reputation of being super cool, does anyone know roughly when he became regarded as a legend of the game, was there any one incident that stands out above another?

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

I'm guessing all the info is in the Blueseum.

I can tell you he came to the Clib from Jacana in 1969. Played some games in 1970, IIRC, but didn't play in the '70 GF. Established himself as a permanent player in the seniors in '71, and played in the '72 GF.

Pretty sure he wore 11 in 1972, so the change would have been before that. Although it seems I am wrong, as your team list from Blueseum has Doull as #4, and Southby in the team, and Southby's first year was '72. Maybe he changed number during the year?

I started going to the footy in '75, and he was well and truly a star by then.

_________________
Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

During the 1972 season Bruce Doull kept Royce Hart very quiet in all the games that Carlton played against Richmond and we played them 5 times that year in 2 home and away games and 3 finals.

He gained great respect and kudos that season and was finally recognised by the media for the great player he was - his star rose from that season onward.

He always seemed to have the wood on Royce Hart after that time onwards. One of the reasons why I dont rate Royce Hart or Wayne Carey as players as I never saw them play that well against Carlton as Doull and Stephen Silvagni always kept them very quiet.

But hey my glass may be half empty.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

27 games in no. 4

These are all the number 4's for carlton
http://www.blueseum.org/cfc/tiki-index. ... Guernsey+4

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That team would have to be 1971 - not 1972. Southby started in 1971, and actually won the B&F in his first two years (71 and 72).

He reached stratosphere proportions when Lou Richards, I think, gave him the nickname of "The Flying Doormat".

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“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
- Martin Luther King Jr.

What number was Bruce Doull before he was given no.4?

I watched the first half of the 1973 Grand Final on Fox last night.

As Agro mentioned, Doull had it all over Royce Hart. Unless something significant happened in the second half then I thought Doull was easily our best on ground on that sad day. It made me remember the wonderful players who have worn that Navy Blue guernsey, my guess is that some of them are really bleeding with how far we've slipped.

Spot on Moish, I stand corrected.

_________________
Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

I watched the last quarter of that game Molly, and while Doull was good (he did make some errors though), Hart was very good, and the commentators were rapping him up for a great game.

_________________
Mens sana in corpore sano.

Bring back the laurel wreath logo!!!

I recorded part of the 1973 GF last night.

I was on a working holiday over in the UK then, and just couldn't believe the result. I was so certain that we would win back to back flags.
Had to wait for monday's Daily Express which used to print the results. (I couldn't afford a phone call back home in those days.)

After nearly 34 years I have never seen it( or the 69 GF). Reckon I'm just about over it by now, so I'll watch it this afternoon before the wife gets home.

It was interesting to see the first half Bluey,

being born in 1975, my understanding of the game has always been sketchy. I thought folklore had it that Neil Balme decked Southby early, and that we were stuffed from then on.

But Southby's whack came well into the second quarter, and we'd been playing catch-up most of the time before that. Maybe the Tigers just wanted revenge for '72 just a little more than we wanted back-to-back flags? Who knows, but we didn't look as switched on as they did. Certainly Big Nick was proppy, and we couldn't find a winner up forward (Craig Davis was pretty inaccurate)

There was some dirty play though. One bloke went to kick Brent Crosswell in the head. The commentators only saw Brent's retaliation, and started having a go at him about being a hot head!

By the way, for some of those with long memories, when did they change over to a centre square? Watching a game where the centre square was different confused the hell out of me! I could never figure out where the ball was!!!

They used a diamond for a couple of years before the centre square.
As I was in the UK for the 1973 and 1974 seasons I don't recall seeing it, and I think the centre square was introduced in 1975.
I remember Barassi and Donaldson (Fitzroy's coach) trialling (the square?) it in a game at Princes Park.

Cheers for that Bluey,

I kept on looking at the game, and wondering if it was the camera angles that were confusing me. Then one of the commentators called the markings on the ground 'the triangle', which made no sense to me at all because it sure wasn't a triangle.

But it certainly did look like a diamond. To me, it just proved how important the square is to a football contest, because I was really confused without it!

We are getting off the Bruce Doull topic,
but as I recall they trialled the square/diamond in a Carlton-Fitzroy game at Princes Park.
Graham Donaldson became the Roys coach in 1971 so that trial must have been the first round (RND10) match 'cause I was at the "Fog Match" (RND21) at the Junction Oval, and 1971 was Ron Barassi's last year at Carlton.

Thanks guys. Man I love this site. I mean you have to wade through a lot of speculation sometimes, but it is so worth it to hear the recollections of people on here. Not to mention the contribution from the founders of Blueseum.

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

I have a feeling it was a square not a diamond and it was in response to the way John Kennedy's Hawthorn used to play about 17 players in the centre square - there other player was Peter Hudson and he used to play in the goalsquare.

As I recall the square was drawn up on the ground as a gentlemen's agreement between the 2 coaches before the game and was not actually sanctioned by the VFL who were actually very unhappy that it was done and that the umpires policed it - the VFL introduced the Diamond in 73 because they didn't want to look like they were doing something recommended by the coaches - but they changed it to a square the following year.

With regard to the 50 metre arc - in 1976 Ian Thorogood the coach of Carlton has the groundkeeper paint a 45 metre arc from both goals at Princes Park - this was done in a very light green to be barely visible - although all the press, media and crowd noticed it - I cant recall what game it was. He instructed all players they were not allowed a shot on goal unless they were inside the arc.

The VFL banned the use of the arc the following week.

I next recalled seeing the arc at either the WACA or Subiaco Oval in 1987 when the West Coast Eagles had a 25 metre and 50 metre arc painted on the ground - I think the WAFL introduced it as an aid to commentators in calling the games and letting them know how far out players were in kicking for goal.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I know this is not exactly on the Doull topic and while I too was too young to remember the game, I believe a poor trade was a major contributing factor to what happened that day. I saw an edition of Grumpy Old Men on Fox Footy a few years ago and a guy called Ricky McLean was on the show. He crossed to Richmond from Carlton around this time (between 1972/73). McLean was a hard man from what they said on the show, he said he was amazed to discover that the Tiger plavers were wary or intimidated by some Carlton Players. He said he set them straight and that most of the Carlton players were not that hard and were all bluff.

I've also heard Big Nick say when he was flattened in the first quarter, he really wasn't with it (slightly concussed and struggling) and played basically out of the forward pocket for the rest of the game. As the Captain/Coach he wasn't well placed to make changes and understand what was going on or make decisions. I've also heard speculation that the sight of the strongman Nick going down early in the game put a shock through the Carlton players and set the tone for the game.

I don't think I mind the physical intimidation in the game from that era and Fowlers hit on big Nick looked reasonably fair. But every time I see footage of Balme king hit of Southby it sickens me. Southby's in front playing the ball and Balme smashes him from behind. Cowardly really couldn't face him and do it, it's pathetic from my memories of Southby he was a ball player and no fighter and probably would have faired that well face to face. But it was a low act and I always consider Balmes failure as a coach a bit of pay back karma for a weak dog. May father maintained that Southby was never as good a player after the broken jaw. Yet Southby was a stand out Full Back during the time he played and may well have beaten Silvagni for Full Back of the Century if he was eligable to be named so.