Caller on SEN this morning claiming good mail that MM is not happy at Carlton. Is he signed up for next year?? Did we give him a 5 yr deal?

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

The first season hasn’t been completed yet and I can’t believe we are comparing Joel Selwoods output over Bryce Gibbs.
However I think that Hughes and the rest of the recruiting team might be worried about all of their 2004 draft selections. I’m still hoping that it’s a player development issue and not a talent issue.

Reckon Fev's 70 metre bomb against Freo when MM was free was just a coincidence, maybe not?

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Green Shooter

The only player I have grave doubts about is JR because he can not find the ball. On the topic of Hughes, I see very few glaring recruting errors. The point I would make is that the kicking skills of our youngsters is far inferior to similar afl recruits (watch tape of Bendigo game). On Hughes my take is

Kennedy- 18 months to early. Will make it. The marking will come. His disposal is more worrying. His attitude is exceptional

Hartlett- A Gem at pick 25. Great Kick, Height, Motor, Good lead. You can not blame Hughesy for the injuries. At pick 25 was a steal.

Bower- Has all the attributes but no evidence of a football brain. I realise how good Karl Norman was when I watch Bower. Pity about Karls brain off the field

Blackwell- Yes Yes Yes. 10% increase in disposal skills will be at least as good as Carazzo. He is a better player than Bentick and that is no disprespect to Adam. Could be a Peter Bell type. Would play him in the seniors regardless of team balance for the long term development of the club.

Grigg- Could be anything. Watch this space. I am 80% sure
he will play 200 games for the Carlton, no comment required

Andersen- Exceptional late pick. Pace. Hardness intensity and follows instructions

Benjamin- Pace but lacks hardness and intensity. Doubtful

Jacobs- I can not recall ever having a player of that age with such exceptional palming abiilty. He is worth the risk. However not mobile enough for AFL football

Edwardes, Hampson have not seen play can not comment

Austin- Just Looks AFL. He seems to be a good reader of the ball. Forward or Back. The gradual improvement thing impresses me. He slowly gets better. However, he is 12 - 18 months away

playing in worse possible side in the AFL lets give them a chance-
I Reckon they are good but need time - does anyone remember Kade Simpsons first three games -not sure he got a possession -did anyone think Carrazzo could play so well - there were the knockers here when we picked up Waite under the father and son rule -Is anyone now doubting that Andrew Walker will be a good player for Carlton
I think both Hartlett and russell will make it - both need a dose of confidence and game time
As for Gibbs please give me a break we had that idiot Drew Morphett saying he was no good on the radio on sunday so that means he is a certainty to be an excellent player - PEOPLE HAVE SHORT MEMORIES -does anyone recall the job he did on acker against the WB -Acker has been the catalyst for their last 2 wins but Bryce towelled him up as he did against Ebert when we played Port - hopefully I CAN GET ON VENT YOUR SPLEEN THIS WEEK BECAUSE STUPID DREW is going to cop it big time bagging an 18 year old -who has been nominated as a rising star -who has played 20 matches including the comedy cup matches
Gibbs is obviously injured and needs a rest

As for kennedy - lets see him with another pre season under his belt and played in the right position-NOT THE BLOODY RUCK
The comparison with Roughhead is a good one - Roughhead has been dropped twice this year from the hawthorn team -he is a year ahead of Kennedy and gets delivery of the ball fev or kennedy would die for -oh and by the way Roughhead isnt used in the ruck either
I THINK Bower is going to be good his performance in round 22 against the swans last year was good and I DONT understand why he was taken off Davis on the weekend
I HAVENT seen enough of Grigg Hampson Austin to make a judgment but have faith in our recruiters that they will come on
BE PATIENT -Im as frustrated as everyone else in terms of results but these kids are going to be good and the reason we will climb the ladder in the next few years -lets be supportive

dont know why, losing every week would be so much fun

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

This is the strongest reason to get rid of Pagan NOW ... let the kids enjoy their footy for a few weeks under a new coach so as this year we don't spend trade week busting a gut to retain players when we should be concentrating on improving our list.

I was watching Footy Confidential last night (NO - i don't watch that crap.....it was just on in the background at the pub i was at) and Gary Lyon brought up some interesting points Re:- Bower and him leaving his opponent to much, not getting goal-side, etc etc etc......................So True!

Bower came to this club (much like other kids) full of potential to be a CHB, or flanker/defender................but That's It!

That's all kids come to this club with. None of them come as a 'Ready Made' midfielder, FF, FB, CHB, etc!

Even Kruzer........................if we draft him expecting him to become a ready made Ruck-Rover then we are just plain silly.


These kids need devlopment and debate with me if you think i'm wrong but i just cannot see evidence that they are getting the right education or attention from Pagan nor do i think he is using them correctly.

The example that Lyon brought up is clear indication of this.

No i'm not saying that Gibbs should be spending 100% game time in the centre or that Hampson should be brought in right away or anything else like that.

But surely it is clear that these kids are playing with No Confidence in themselves, their game, their role with the club and in some cases each other.

Bower & Kennedy,.......................these are TALENTED KIDS who are nowhere near the footballers they were before coming to this club. If anything, they're going backwards.
But both look more than comfortable with the Bullants, and i don't believe that it's 100% due to the difference between VFL/AFL...............

Grigg just looked confused in his first game................great for his confidence that your just gonna piss him off the very next week!

Blackwell consistantly racks up 40+ possesions in the Bullants but for some reason is consistantly heading through Pagans revolving door of the seniors when he doesn't rack up the same amount of possesions during his MARATHON 32min of game time.

Ruseell just isn't impressing in the seniors! Admitedly he has improved a bit this year but still makes consistant mistake...............which makes me wonder if anybody is pulling him up on those mistakes or do we just believe dropping him will fix the problem?

I've lost faith in Pagan in regards to these kids. Anybody who wants to prove me wrong PLEASE................Do so..........i beg you!

Was listening to Fynie (that tool on SEN) on sunday night who said that he has been told FIRST HAND from a Carlton player (wouldn't mention who) that Pagan has very little to do with the bottom end of our playing list (ie - the god-damn kids who are our future).

Now i'm the first to admit that Fynie is a complete Tool of the 'Snap-on' quality but why would he make up something like that!

If Pagan stays and we get A Zruzer and a Cotchin and they develop as slow as what our players are doing now.......................are we just gonna put it down to bad drafting again?

I'd like people to have a look at the Kangaroos............................In particular, Swallow!

This kid was overlooked in the draft once and went very very late in the draft the next year. This was mainly due to his very poor disposal even thought he was chalking up 40+ possesions consistantly in the WAFL.

This kid has / is developing beautiful and i can already seen MASSIVE improvments in his kicking.

Kennedy never seemed to have a problem marking when i watched him in the WAFL. In fact, i can remember him averaging maybe 8 marks a game sometimes and constantly out-performing his mate Ryder- unless i was watching a dfifferent Kennedy?????????

The Kennedy at Carlton is now fumbling the ball alot more, often over-running his lead or running to completly the wrong space. His confidence in his kicking has dropped (although i was never really that confident watching him kick for goal anyway).

So how do we address these issues?...............................We throw him in the ruck because his TALL?

Oh boy.

If anybody dissagrees with me and believes these kids are developing fine then by all means PLEASE try to convince me.


(I will however give credit to Pagan regarding Setanta............throwing him in the ruck will teach him so much more about the pace of AFL than at full back. But Kennedy just doesnt have the leap to do this, nor did i ever see him ruck as a junior. Makes me wonder why we didn't go for Ryder or Clarke if we wanted a KPP/Ruckman!)

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

C'mon Frank. Are you SERIOUS?
Kid has zero confidence, and what's more, zero spatial awareness of what is going on around him.
Forget the fact that he took a nice mark and then wanted to run on like a rabbit startled in the proverbial headlights (that is what he reminds me of). The fact that he had no idea about where Davis was going, let alone having the where-withall to actually follow him and allowed Davis to kick 3 quick goals is the reason he was moved.

Kid jus has no idea at this stage. First game against Sydney last year was a long time ago and it was only one game. Every other game he has played has been atrocious - at best.

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Footytalk Has NEW HOME.
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I have to say that this show has the worst branding ever. What a terrible name for a TV show when so many people call it something else.

Whilst it is called Footy Classified, the number of people who call it Footy Confidential is amazing and I am guilty of it myself.

Shows how off the mark Channel 9 actually are when people are inadvertently calling it something else. (and probably how stupid we people are).

No offence ryan - not having a go at ya.

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Footytalk Has NEW HOME.
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No worries...........thanks for picking me up on it!

The show is that god-awful and 'daytime-soap'-esque that i couln't care what they call it to be honest!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Yes round 22 last year is a long time ago but how many games has he played since !
As for Davis it would have been good for him to see where a creative/sneaky forward goes in the big league and the work rate required to keep up with these players -sometimes you learn more getting a towelling by good players than if you have a good game -its all about development Chyna
How many games has he played and has he played in any winning sides
Dont be so critical Chyna did you say the same thing about simpson in his first 3 matches - I DID ABOUT Fraser BROWN many moons ago and I was OBVIOUSLY WRONG

Of course I said the same things about Simpson after his first three games. I don't think there is one Carlton supporter around who didn't, and if they say they didn't, they are lying.
All I am passing comment on is how he looks at the moment. I am not suggesting to anyone that he should be sacked or traded at all. You asked why he was taken off Davis - and that is the reason (at least from my vantage point sitting in the lounge room).
His games this year have all been similar. He gets the ball and panics and that is due to a lack of awareness and a lack of confidence. Simpson was the same early in his career. (Actually he only got the ball once in his first three games (after a mark or free kick) and went to play on and was caught holding the ball, thus preventing him from getting a stat.
I hope Bower can find some awareness and afinity with the game. Perhaps Simpson can have a sit down with him and talk him through it.
Simpson really should be a long-term skipper down there. Bloke will become one of the premier midfielders in the comp next year and that is a huge leap from someone who gained so much derision from supporters after his first few games.

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Footytalk Has NEW HOME.
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cant help but fell that with pagan gone, a new coach, new support staff, better facilities, and most important the blues academy that is in the process of being set up

our younger kids will sky rocket with their improvement under that type of system.

we have some real talent, IMO in our side already, and if, and it is a big if, if we can harness that talent we will have a seriously good side, sooner rather than later.

this is why im against waiting until the end of the year.

the development needs to be happening now, not at season end, not at the start of the pre-season.

i call it the monday syndrome. i.e. people start a diet on a monday, stop smoking on a monday etc

if there is a problem fix it, now, not wait until monday

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

My biggest concern of where our club is at.
Wonder what is going through Gibb's mind.

Cough ** cough **... No, I think those who had seen how good Simpson was at the Bullants knew that he would come good. Judging young players from 14 seconds on the ground in the seniors, and within their first 2 years, is just poor form in my book.

Simpson was a breath of fresh air in the seconds at the time, as we had virtually no youngsters on the list coming through.

Compare that to 2007 when we have a lot of them, but for various reasons, they may be struggling given the responsibility, size, whatever, and to me 2007 is still a far better spot to be in than at any time in 2002-2005. We've got them coming through - we have to find the way to harness that.

i actually started to sway my opinion on getting the PP to get Kreuzer etc..

but after reading about Murphy etc.. @#$%&! not winning another game.

we are going no where fast if the kids who we have at the club arent enjoying themselves

@#$%&! a PP, we will get picks 1,2 or 3 depending on what happens with the remaing games, and from all reports, after the carnival there are a few guns out of Western Australia who would do a roll for us if we didnt end up with Krezer.

At the moment, winning a few games is the best thing we need for the development of the likes of Muprhy, Gibbs, Bower etc..

i refuse to belive that losing the last remaing games and getting Krezeur is better than winnign some games and making the club and enjoyable place for our kids to be.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

It would be impossible to agree with this post any more, well done.

Russell is the only one I have concerns about. He is lost and doesn't have a spot. Reminds me of Wiggins 3 years ago but I don't think he'll be as lucky as the Wiggler.

Bower will be good
Kennedy will be great
Grigg will be sensational
Blackwell will give us depth

Remember, we played a bunch of kids last week compared to hardened men. Their average games was 124 against us with 65 and keep in mind also that Kouta and Lappin make up a huge portion of our experience yet delivered little.

Our kids really were carrying the load and handled themselves quite well for a large portion of the game. For commentators to hack on Bower for not being goal-side of Davis when roving to a Kennedy/Everett contest is just so laughable. He will learn and it will become second nature, Davis has played 127 games and countless finals, Bower has played 3 games

GIVE HIM A @#$%&! CHANCE LOIN CHOP (that's Gary Lion)!!

Had we beaten Sydney in Sydney it would have been the a much greater upset than the Lions/WC game.

It's tough isn't it SS. I am sick of our kids getting kicked around like this as well but gee we have a great opportunity to add 1 more quality before we start our onslaught and probably for the very last time before the goal posts get moved again. Flower all others have done it and done it in a big way. We need to keep the love within the youngsters however else that win might be an even bigger loss.

I have only seen a couple of games live in the past few years and most people will agree that it is difficult to get a real feel for what is happening from the TV.

However one thing that stands out to me is the body language of a number of our younger "developing" players. Last year me and Mrs NTBlue were unfortunate enough to get to see the NAB cup consolation game at PrincesPark where we were flogged by Port Power. The only bright spot in that game was the spark that the supporters got from Paul Bowers attack at the ball and Ryan Jacksons run when they finally got a couple of minutes late in the game. (I understand that they had already played a reserves game.) The way it looks now is that the younger players are afraid to have a go as they are more conscious of being punished on the bench for a mistake.

My experience in sport and work is that any organisation that focusses too much on punishing risk takers will continue to achieve mediocrity. The culture should be that we are all having a go and if one of us makes a mistake that we all help one another make up for it and improve on past mistakes.

A couple of weeks ago I heard the commentators talk about Carlton players remonstrating with team mates about picking up players and making mistakes. The commentator said something about it being a sign of poor morale when players were whinging to one another and blaming each other.

Unless we are deliberately tanking there certainly appears to be a morale problem. The comeraderie of great teams of the past would have seen a group of players go up and encourage a player who had made a mistake by making positive comments about how we as a team would make up for it, etc.

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“Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile a way and you have their shoes."