Kouta blasts Pagan (Denis' reply p4)

Virgin Blue · **Joined:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm **Posts:** 3021

TheGame is right. Kouta is a club legend and today has shown true leadership by revealing once and for all the damage Pagan did to this club. I am glad this former captain has come out and set the record straight.

79Vintage · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am **Posts:** 1971

Virgin Blue wrote:

79Vintage wrote:

No one is bigger than the club, but put a pen in Kouta's hand and he obviously thinks he is. The past is the past and a former captain in Kouta should let sleeping dogs lie and keep his silence. As a club in all ways we've moved on from the Pagan era, but Kouta has to drag us back into it, in the limelight of the football media. Kouta, if you've got something to get off your chest about Pagan, get yourself a pseudonym on Talking Carlton and vent your spleen, while keeping your identity as a former captain of the club secret, rather than doing it in public whilst earning a dollar.

You've really put yourself before the club in this instance Kouta.

Get your hand off your souvalaki :!:

Are you for real?

As Kouta said, it was important to set the record straight,. The truth needed to be told. Way too many people don't realise the damage that crazy old man did to our once great club. He ruined us in more ways than one, and absolutely deserves his public bake. I'm glad people like you aren't in control of our club.

By the end of his reign I had no time for Pagan, but the cirumstances of his reign weren't completley of his own doing. Inherited a list that was hampered by our patheitc lack of a trade/draft policy. Hit with severe draft sanctions the moment he arrived. Had to operate in a time when the board could hardly keep his head above water.

If you want to read a biography about a great Carlton footballer, read Wayne Johnston's bio - and it comes through that the bloke played the game with a fierce determination and a love for the right to play the sport.

*snip*

Virgin Blue · **Joined:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm **Posts:** 3021

Kouta might have a book to sell, but as someone said earlier, the Pagan issue is a large part of the latter part of his career, so naturally this is going to come out. Anyone who knows Kouta would know that he is a stand up person and it would have killed him to bite his tongue while he was at the club, and so it is not surprising his emotions have overflown now. I have never heard anyone say one remotely bad thing about Kouta, whereas I have heard time and time again what a horrible person Pagan is, so it is a bit rich to see Carlton supporters say that Kouta shouldn't come out and set the record straight.

And besides, Pagan was happy to take the money even th9ough he didn't deliver as coach.

The Duke · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:26 am

Cazzesman wrote:

79Vintage wrote:

No one is bigger than the club, but put a pen in Kouta's hand and he obviously thinks he is. The past is the past and a former captain in Kouta should let sleeping dogs lie and keep his silence. As a club in all ways we've moved on from the Pagan era, but Kouta has to drag us back into it, in the limelight of the football media. Kouta, if you've got something to get off your chest about Pagan, get yourself a pseudonym on Talking Carlton and vent your spleen, while keeping your identity as a former captain of the club secret, rather than doing it in public whilst earning a dollar.

You've really put yourself before the club in this instance Kouta.

Get your hand off your souvalaki :!:

What 79 said. Airing the dirty laundry does no good to anyone, except maybe the book seller...........funny about that. :roll:

Regards Cazzesman

Agree, Kouta looks pathetic and petty. Lost any respect I had for him as a person leader. It's a real shame it all ended like this :cry:

.

It' not the fact that he went to the board, but he's now trying to sell his book using someone he knows won't fire back :roll:

.

Virgin Blue · **Joined:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm **Posts:** 3021

79Vintage wrote:

Virgin Blue wrote:

79Vintage wrote:

No one is bigger than the club, but put a pen in Kouta's hand and he obviously thinks he is. The past is the past and a former captain in Kouta should let sleeping dogs lie and keep his silence. As a club in all ways we've moved on from the Pagan era, but Kouta has to drag us back into it, in the limelight of the football media. Kouta, if you've got something to get off your chest about Pagan, get yourself a pseudonym on Talking Carlton and vent your spleen, while keeping your identity as a former captain of the club secret, rather than doing it in public whilst earning a dollar.

You've really put yourself before the club in this instance Kouta.

Get your hand off your souvalaki :!:

Are you for real?

As Kouta said, it was important to set the record straight,. The truth needed to be told. Way too many people don't realise the damage that crazy old man did to our once great club. He ruined us in more ways than one, and absolutely deserves his public bake. I'm glad people like you aren't in control of our club.

By the end of his reign I had no time for Pagan, but the cirumstances of his reign weren't completley of his own doing. Inherited a list that was hampered by our patheitc lack of a trade/draft policy. Hit with severe draft sanctions the moment he arrived. Had to operate in a time when the board could hardly keep his head above water.

If you want to read a biography about a great Carlton footballer, read Wayne Johnston's bio - and it comes through that the bloke played the game with a fierce determination and a love for the right to play the sport.

*snip*

***edited by mods***

Leadership is about saying what needs to be said.

We all know things weren't as Denis would have liked them to be when he arrived, but that is besides the point - you are merely putting a spin on this to deflect attention from the fact that Pagan's game plan was outdated and he treated his players like shit.

By the way, play the ball not the man

Virgin Blue · **Joined:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm **Posts:** 3021

The Duke wrote:

Cazzesman wrote:

79Vintage wrote:

No one is bigger than the club, but put a pen in Kouta's hand and he obviously thinks he is. The past is the past and a former captain in Kouta should let sleeping dogs lie and keep his silence. As a club in all ways we've moved on from the Pagan era, but Kouta has to drag us back into it, in the limelight of the football media. Kouta, if you've got something to get off your chest about Pagan, get yourself a pseudonym on Talking Carlton and vent your spleen, while keeping your identity as a former captain of the club secret, rather than doing it in public whilst earning a dollar.

You've really put yourself before the club in this instance Kouta.

Get your hand off your souvalaki :!:

What 79 said. Airing the dirty laundry does no good to anyone, except maybe the book seller...........funny about that. :roll:

Regards Cazzesman

Agree, Kouta looks pathetic and petty. Lost any respect I had for him as a person leader. It's a real shame it all ended like this :cry:

.

It' not the fact that he went to the board, but he's now trying to sell his book using someone he knows won't fire back :roll:

.

He doesn't look petty, he looks like a true leader. He has said what needed to be said. He is more a leader in my eyes now than he was before.

exsing · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:34 am

Virgin Blue wrote:

Maybe Libba should take a leaf out of Kouta's book and actually say what he thinks for once, cause from what I have heard he couldn;'t stand Pagan

I can understand why Libba wouldn't reveal his true feelings. He is job hunting atm. Not a good look to be slagging off your old boss in public...

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:36 am

I can imagine every player on the current list will be reading this article and walking round with a spring in their step with the realisation that its not them that has been producing the results of the last 5 years it's the way they were playing the game .

It confirms that Collo was the wrong man and an AFL politcal patsy
It is a shame that the board didn't have the money to pay him out earlier

The Duke · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:37 am

Virgin Blue wrote:

The Duke wrote:

Cazzesman wrote:

79Vintage wrote:

No one is bigger than the club, but put a pen in Kouta's hand and he obviously thinks he is. The past is the past and a former captain in Kouta should let sleeping dogs lie and keep his silence. As a club in all ways we've moved on from the Pagan era, but Kouta has to drag us back into it, in the limelight of the football media. Kouta, if you've got something to get off your chest about Pagan, get yourself a pseudonym on Talking Carlton and vent your spleen, while keeping your identity as a former captain of the club secret, rather than doing it in public whilst earning a dollar.

You've really put yourself before the club in this instance Kouta.

Get your hand off your souvalaki :!:

What 79 said. Airing the dirty laundry does no good to anyone, except maybe the book seller...........funny about that. :roll:

Regards Cazzesman

Agree, Kouta looks pathetic and petty. Lost any respect I had for him as a person leader. It's a real shame it all ended like this :cry:

.

It' not the fact that he went to the board, but he's now trying to sell his book using someone he knows won't fire back :roll:

.

He doesn't look petty, he looks like a true leader. He has said what needed to be said. He is more a leader in my eyes now than he was before.

VB, he was NEVER a leader. On field or off field he never had what it took to lead men into battle. He showed leadership by example in glimpses but that's about it. I've never thought he'd be a good leader and was only given the job due to lack of competition.

I respect him as an awesome footballer for those years but there's still some biterness that stops me having the same adoration as others - and that's disapointing for me.

79Vintage · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am **Posts:** 1971

Virgin Blue wrote:

79Vintage wrote:

Virgin Blue wrote:

79Vintage wrote:

No one is bigger than the club, but put a pen in Kouta's hand and he obviously thinks he is. The past is the past and a former captain in Kouta should let sleeping dogs lie and keep his silence. As a club in all ways we've moved on from the Pagan era, but Kouta has to drag us back into it, in the limelight of the football media. Kouta, if you've got something to get off your chest about Pagan, get yourself a pseudonym on Talking Carlton and vent your spleen, while keeping your identity as a former captain of the club secret, rather than doing it in public whilst earning a dollar.

You've really put yourself before the club in this instance Kouta.

Get your hand off your souvalaki :!:

Are you for real?

As Kouta said, it was important to set the record straight,. The truth needed to be told. Way too many people don't realise the damage that crazy old man did to our once great club. He ruined us in more ways than one, and absolutely deserves his public bake. I'm glad people like you aren't in control of our club.

By the end of his reign I had no time for Pagan, but the cirumstances of his reign weren't completley of his own doing. Inherited a list that was hampered by our patheitc lack of a trade/draft policy. Hit with severe draft sanctions the moment he arrived. Had to operate in a time when the board could hardly keep his head above water.

If you want to read a biography about a great Carlton footballer, read Wayne Johnston's bio - and it comes through that the bloke played the game with a fierce determination and a love for the right to play the sport.

Virgin by name, virgin brain by nature. :roll:

***edited by mods***

Leadership is about saying what needs to be said.

We all know things weren't as Denis would have liked them to be when he arrived, but that is besides the point - you are merely putting a spin on this to deflect attention from the fact that Pagan's game plan was outdated and he treated his players like shit.

By the way, play the ball not the man

That's exactly right Virgin :!:

Now go and tell Kouta to, "Play the ball and not the man :!:

"

If the former club captain hadn't of played the man and not the ball, we wouldn't of been having this argument.

Simple.

blueboy8 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:13 pm **Posts:** 972

Wait for Campo's Bio :shock:

camel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:39 am

Pagan to be interviewed on SEN shortly...

The Duke · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:39 am

blueboy8 wrote:

Wait for Campo's Bio :shock:

yeah, and that carpark photo op. That'd be a chapter on its own.

Jarusa · **Joined:** Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am **Posts:** 23123

I suppose it is only human nature to try and blame all the ills that befell the club on one person.

darknavy · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:44 am

He'll learn from that

FlipMode2 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:45 am

Geez theres some real winners calling SEN :roll:

camel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:47 am

FLiPMoDE2 wrote:

Geez theres some real winners calling SEN :roll:

Let me tell ya...

It's best just to tune out I reckon. :lol:

jezzarules · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:09 pm **Posts:** 6045

George Harris wrote:

For all of us on here who were saying for years that Pagan had lost the players, at last it is now in the public domain.

Confirms a few things for those of us that thought Kouta wasn't giving 100% in his last years too.

darknavy · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:53 am

Pagan just insinuated that (Corey McKernan) painted a negative picture of him before he arrived.

Pagan generally positive and upbeat - surprised but says he is moving on and taking it in his stride.

Says he knew about the meeting on the boat.

Talking about controlling the things that he could control - waiting for him to talk about bedouins.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:54 am

Sorry Duke but I have to comment on your posts...they bother me

The Duke wrote

Quote:

Agree, Kouta looks pathetic and petty. Lost any respect I had for him as a person leader. It's a real shame it all ended like this .

IMO I don't think you had that much respect for him in the first place if it all ends when he speaks the truth....the TRUTH...that's all; that's no crime and certainly no big deal.

get it right: Kouta's a Carlton man and Pagan isn't. You work out who you should respect more.

Quote:

I respect him as an awesome footballer for those years but there's still some biterness that stops me having the same adoration as others - and that's disapointing for me.

Just as I thought....some lingering bitterness...why?...because a man who was cut down by serious kness injury couldn't reach the same heights the whole footy community admired and watched in awe? You're in the minority with that thought.

I don't think you think that much of Kouta in the first place to consider your post balanced...there's an obvious underlying bitterness towards the great Cartlon premiership player.

Kouta blasts Pagan (Denis' reply p4)

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