or the reexamining of the hamill myth.

Okay so things have been floating around in the log ja,m of my mind for a while now. one of the things is this idea that leadership at carlton sucks.

Now this is not a new idea for me. I shuddered whem Braddles was made captain, I admit it. Great footballer - but captain? Not for mine. No disrespect meant either i just think a captain shjould be able to do 2 things, influence agame and stand up for downed teamates. Johnno was a great captain. So was Stickis, and Big Nick the best i saw - ever.

You see Thomas on the week end discovered (I think) that Nicky boy is not a captain, not yet at least. ball got absolutely pole axed and the saints didn't give a murmur - no one saw it? Do you think that would have mattered to Johnno? or Big Nick? No way known!


Now my therory is this, premierships are won with great captains. After stcks retired I think the carlton machine erred (and boy this machine at this point was erring more than a blind juggler). They had decided (I think)
that the next great captain of carlton was going to be Whits.

And here is where history is changed and the wheels begin to fall off (although the paper bag crap wasn't helping i admit) - okay so we needed a new leader, someone for the next flag - the club thought Whits, appointed Braddles as a sort of caretaker and then sat back.

Now around here (dates are irrelevant, its the club's thinking I'm interested in) hamill gets some big offers (blame him, his manager or whatever but the truth is the offers were big) talks to the club and is basically told, 'sorry son in our pecking order your not in the top ten'.

Now i have always believed this. he doesn't kick goals, didn;t seem to do an awful lot BUT ask any footballer and they rave about hamill

- why is this?

Arhhh because in him they see someone they would follow gladly into battle
- you mean like a captain?

Precicely! Perhaps Hamill was worht far more than we thought - perhaps he was the next captain we had waiting in the wings but that stupid rerime of ours got another thing wrong (I am a firm believer that the sewer of years we are expereincing all stems from their crap). Whist should never have been the captain elect - hamill is the natural leader. maybe he was worth a lot more than we thought - certainly i'd take him over those that remained any day because he LEADS!

so did we have our Tom but like Liberty vallance, labelled the wrong man the hero? Should we have given Aaromn more credit - this anger we have at him, should it be another clenched fist waved at the past admin?

Come back Aaron all is forgiven!!!!!!!!!!!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

We don't need him....geez look at all the crap aimed at Campo and Whitnall for their performance on big money.

Yes Hamill has been a leader for the way he plays the game, his ferocity at the man and the ball. I remember saying one day when I saw him pick Libba up in a tackle and threw him aside "I don't care if Hamill doesn't get a kick as long as he does that stuff".

That was basically it though, a handy footballer who attacks the ball hard.

We had Hickmott to step into that role.

Previous admin did the right thing in not submitting to his huge salary demand's....besides, where would we be at full back now without Livo

Given the wear and tear on his body from playing the style he does the question really needs to be asked...

What sort of leader is Aaron Hamill these days when he plays 12 games a year and is ineffective when he's out on the ground because his body is giving in to the demands placed on it over the past 8-10 years?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Aaron signed a contract with St Kilda last year of such excess that it may have the effect of preventing the saints from winning a premiership by pushing good players out.

He is openly known at the club as the stingiest player with money, money must rule his life, he is the poster boy for mercenary footballers.

I think he finished 8th in our best and fairest the year that he left.

I loved the way he played, used to just watch him for large sections of the match.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and you are probably right that the wrong VC was chosen. But we will never know, he may have been a good captain for us or he may have been crap, we will never know.

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great post- good reading.

So who at Carlton will we follow into battle?

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Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

To my mind Hamill was the best "required" player to leave the club over the past 30 years. We should never have lost him and the fact that we did has cost us dearly. From there we started our downhill trend that we are yet to recover from.

We still have the gaping hole from which Hamill left from. We have next to no leaders in the mid-late 20's age group. Hamill would have fitted that role to a tee.

Hamill may not have been in the top 10 at the time, but even if he was only in the top 20 then I would have done what I could have to keep him. We had aging stars then in Braddles, SOS, Ratts, McKay and Browny and guys like Hamill and Whitnall ready to take the breech. Succession was in place and we botched it!

Still his manager kept us hanging over the coals and something had to give. In the end he left for more money and so I say good riddance.

Had he stayed though he would have played an important part in our history.

Who are the other required players to leave our club? There are none. We have a great history of retaining players and that hasn't stopped now.

We made a prelim final in 2001, the year after he left and were a Kouta knee away from challenging for the flag.

Our slide started with the retirement of SOS and Dean Rice at the end of 2001 and then injuries the next season to Allan, Ratten, Whitnall...hell everyone was injured in 2002

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

pfftt.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

I also wouldn't be surprised if Aaron leaving didn't in some way influence the administration into the 'brown paper bag' syndrome. Jack, in his arrogance, never liked anyone leaving the club. I wouldn't be surprised if this either started, or at least increased, our reliance on payments outside the salary cap, and hence resulted in Black Friday...

Big Nick, Johnno and Sticks were champion PLAYERS as well as leaders. Would you rate Hamill a champion Player?....I wouldn't.

A great captain needs ALL the requirements.

We haven't got anyone on the list at the moment who has ALL the requirements....yet.

It's interesting though isn't it - forget the anti hamill crap, who would be a better leader now Hamill or Whits or Campo or Stevo or Kouta?

Out of the 4 I think Hamill is the bloke players would play for.

Now I know all therteasons to hate him and do not care, all my life I try to be a reasonable man, Hamill might have had a lot more to give than the past admin gave him credit for.

You see campo is a footballer, he is not a leader - is it his fault then he must lead because we have such a dirth of leaders? Foir get 9again0 the money argument - Campo deserves to be paid his worth at the club - it is not his fault if this club over-estimated that worth.

Offer him what we now think is fair for his next contract and the devil be damned but

I want to know

out of those I mentioned wh0o would make the best captain?

Not who is the best bloke, or the stingiest or the greatest footballer etc.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

was Fitzy? great captain, good ruckman - a champion ruckman? hmmm

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I think our next captain is right under our noses. Don't get me wrong, Kouta's a great man and one of the best we've seen in our time play for the Blues, but I just don't think he is captain material.

I know Kouta's got another year and will probably captain it through to retirement, but I'd love to see Waite captain and Thornton and Lance vice captains.

Waite is a mongrel that will hit hard, take a pack mark and kick a long bomb from outside 50. These are the things we've lost from Kouta, and to a certain extent Campo and, let's be honest, even Stevens!!

Thornton, at 21 could easily lead a backline with Hartlette, Livo, Carrazzo etc and have plenty of muscle to push the opposition around. He has experience beyond his years and I think is ready now.

Let's not stuff around with promoting stevens, he just ain't tuff enough to lead the entire side, get a young leadership group together now like the "Sticks" days of the '80s and '90s.

Despite all Hamill's short comings, he is a pretty good leader and sets an example on the field.

I believe when he went down to St.Kilda that he mentored a lot of the younger kids and helped show them the way to do things.

Wish we had someone like that.

Reckon Stevens could do it.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Hamill was just a victim of this socialistic game we follow. JE would have paid him if he could be he was under the pump and the demands were getting to great -something had to give and sadly it was Hamill.

Dannyboy - He would have been a fantastic Captain of the Carlton Football club

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

but see given the restraints Carlton made a choice Hamill or Whitnal - we chose Whitnal - I guess what i am asking is - was that the right choice?

Now I know hindsight and all that blahblah (put that with Agro's informative pffft - still he'll answer when he gets his script from Synbad ) but I just think we lost the plot horrendously under Elliott - is this another example? We lknew we needed a leader - everyone knew that. But everyone (me included) went for Whitnal (or were lead to Whits) - is that another mistake that is haunting us now?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

It's only haunting us because Lance preferred to sit back, not become a better player and bleed the club dry of money.

If he had kept himself in shape of the last 5 years, he would be captain at the moment and earning every cent of his contract.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Dannyboy I disagree with some of your sentiments (an exception rather than the rule):

Sticks, Big Nick & Fitzy - the best captains and leaders of our club that I have ever seen. Now for Johnno - one of the most exhilarating, competitive and inspirational players to have pulled on the old dark navy blue jumper – a true leader in every regard but not a great captain. His tenure of captaincy lasted only 2 years and was stripped to make way for Sellers one year captaincy. Johnno was a true leader with out the need for a captains badge.

In regards to Hamill, he was rated at #8 on our list at the end of 2000 and fair enough. The $350k per year offered was a fair reflection of his worth and he may very well have taken it……….until it became apparent what his best mate Campo (off his 2000 B&F) was angling for. Hammill wanted a greater piece of the pie as well.

If we had great administrators and JE was able to keep quiet then we wouldn't have had to make the decision then. We could have kept them both. They were both in their early 20's. So let them develop and then have a look at it. That path would have led us to about now and we could have had a reasoned debate based on their development. Now it is theory.

Hamills reason to leave was a bit more than just money. Sit down with JE and question the comments he made to Aaron on more than one occassion about his alledged sexuality. I believe that Aaron would have left on a lesser offer than the one St Kilda made, but would have stayed if JE was man enough to apologise for his behaviour.

Re Hamils sexuality, I do not know nor do I care. It is his business not anybody elses.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

exactly malleefowl

and re Johnno - actually I think you're right only 2 years as captain but shit what a leader in the big games eh Oh for a johnno now!!!

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!