[quote="CK95"][quote]David Campese is widely regarded as one of the greatest rugby players ever. In an international career spanning 15 years, he played more test matches for Australia and scored more tries than any other player in the history of the game. David began his rugby union career with the Queanbeyan Mighty Whites in the ACTRU competition. His outstanding ability as a rugby player resulted in his selection for the ACT, Australian U21, NSW, Australian Wallabies, Barbarians and Australian Sevens Teams. On October 23 1996, David became the first Australian rugby player to play 100 tests. David has captained the Australian Sevens Team, the Commonwealth Games Rugby Sevens Team in Kuala Lumpur, and was Assistant Coach to the Singapore National Team in the Asian Championships. Fast and elusive, and with his unique “goose stepâ€

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Today, when I take a close look at my Baggy Green, as I often do, I see mateship, camaraderie and teamwork, and a sense of belonging. I hope that its legacy lives on and the spirit it provides stays strong. Stephen 'Tugga' Waugh - Never Say Die.

Have to agree with Surrey here. Just read the entire thread. Some of the comments are ill informed and disgraceful.

Synbad keeps pushing the discredited line on how much Campo is being paid, in fact it has gone from 500 000 plus to 600 000 and in his last post or infers that it is 700 000. The truth is this. He does not know. He relys on old newspaper reports and third hand lockerroom scuttle butt. When someone is continually inflating figures, note he did the same with Whitnal, any credibility he has is blown out the window.

Surrey is right Campo is playing a a knee injury that he was advised to rest and played with a cracked bone in his jaw ear;ier this year again against advice. You want leadership that is it right there. Whitnal has not had a chance to settle in any position, but when he plays an entire game in one position we saw what he can do. Whits has literally been a spare parts man this year and as for the crap that is being pushed that he is overweight And it is well known that Houla has a knee injury that hampers his movement.

It is easy to create scape goats when a team is struggling and it is exactly what we are doing now.

Mob gathers "Burn the Witch Burn the Witch"

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Remember a couple of years ago when some of the players started a "cancer" within the club, and contrived a player go-slow?

Campo embodies similar attitudes in the way he goes about his game. Easy kicks, mouthing off at younger players, no leadership, stuff like that.

Play the game, give some back to the club which has given you all you have so far, Scotty. Take a lower contract. You know you don't deserve more.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Surrey...I sift through the info and make up my own mind, I agree and disagree with the same people and I dont take sides I always debate on the merits of the issue rather than the personalities who post them.

I dont have inside info on anything Carlton....but I think its fair to say the the majority of posters agree that Campo and Lance get well paid for their work..whether it be 400K, 500K or 600k+...I dont think they warrant that amount of money.....others have leadership issues, ability to down hill ski etc but my gripe is purely output compared to other players being payed the same money at other clubs...if they are injured then rest them and let the supporters know..

ie Lance.....for what we pay Lance I expect Barry Hall, Jonothan Brown, Warren Tredrae type results....he played well against the Swans but we need him doing that 4 out of every 5 games..because thats what Hall does....what Brown does..what Tredrae does....

Campo is the same....I read he broke even with Ben Matthews and then lost out slightly to Jude Bolton...for 500K a year I need him flogging both these two lesser players and helping win us the game..it was winnable.....Lance did his bit...needed Campo to do his.....gives me no joy to say Trade Campo, Delist campo but all I am saying is that we have to see value for dollar and I dont see it.....I know players have problems both injury and personal but I have a included a signature that perhaps shows the difference between some so called champions and real champions...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

You can't accuse me of bias, I have no inside info on the club (even though I'm supposedly just a forum poster in Sydney).

I see what is said in training reports, I watch games (albeit not live - that's granted) and I don't like what I see.

For me, I don't care if Camporeale is currently being paid 450K/500K/600K. For that kind of money you want results. You want 27 quality possessions each week, possessions that hurt the opposition, you want leadership, you want encouragement from senior players, mentoring and the like. Like Elwood has said, for 500K you want the complete package on and off the field. When he starts to mouth off at umpires, younger players, all of which is obvious on TV, you have to question whether we are getting what we should be from someone who is in the higher bracket of those at the club.

Why is Whitnall escaping this week? Because he put in. Kicking 5 goals and taking good marks is what we expect from a 500K forward. I hope he continues to do it.

It's the little things that Camporeale doesn't do that gets me and it's his bad habits that really get me, even if he didn't actively revolt.

Mark, you've conveniently left the fact that he couldn't be traded because no-one would want him for the money he was on. He was still on contract to us and we would have had to foot a huge wage bill regardless. Whitnall likewise.

Sydney Blue,

The incentive that's being offered is the chance to play in an AFL premiership and be successful as a team. What other inducements can a coach or a club offer? We've got players who are on big amounts of cash, surely if they can't perform for that, there's nothing Pagan or any coach could do.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Clem given that we do not actually know what money Campo was is/on and that he was not even offered anyways, I don't know how you can make that claim. And he we did want to trade him we could have easily done a deal with the recievcing club similar to what we did in regard to McKernan, Beaumont and Murphy. If he had been put up for trade 3 years ago somebody would have bitten, he wasn't, they didn't. Also people forget that Campo signed his last contrcat for less than what Adelaide offered him at the time.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Mark, the key is that we couldn't afford to pay all of McKernan, Beaumont, Murphy AND Camporeale to be playing at another club. We couldn't afford to pay probably about $800K for players who'd be playing at another club.

Besides - if we traded Camporeale like we did McKernan we still couldn't trade into the first or second round. We were hamstrung, we had no choice but to keep him.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

so in our hour of need - he showed the club some faith and stayed for less money than what he could of got elsewhere.

yet know the shoe is on the other foot we are ready to boot him?

that is something i hope to never see out our club.

I have got to agree with Bm & Surrey here.

without all the facts, and none of us here have all the facts, how can any of us make an informed decision.

I could say, that the amount Campo is on at the moment is a direct result of a back ended contract.

02 Season - we where paying him $220k
03 Season - we where paying him $220k
04 Season - we where paying him $220k
05 Season - we where paying him $660k

in effect we have paid him $1.32 Million over 4 years or $330k for a year - and i think that is very reasonable for someone of Campo's quality.

you take the whole sum and its a fair amount for a player that has served our club very well over the years.

but ive just made all that up, so unless you know the exact figures then it isnt worth speculating about.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

And this is the problem I have Clem. After reading a few training reports on here and watching the game from the comfort of their own home people feel that they can make the judgment on Campo's character.

Ie Campo;

Is a Sook,
Is a Cancer on the club
Lacks Leadership
is playing for his own pocket
mouths off at umpires
mouths off at younger players

Can you really see all of that from Sydney?

If so can you answer theses one for me?

1. Have you heard the younger players question Campo's leadership?

2. How does Daniel Batson rate Campo as a leader?

3. Have you heard the Denis Pagan question Campo's leadership?

4. Is Campo slack at training?

5. Does he have any involvement with the younger player’s development?

6.Why was Campo named as Vice-Captain by Pagan?
(And don't give me that Default crap)

7.Has Campo ever turned down a contract from an interstate club to remain at Carlton?

8.How much work does Campo do off the field for the Carlton Football Club?

You may have to tune your TV a little.

Good Post shakin - I live in sydney also but only bag Pagan - He's an easier target than the players because we are losing all the time . Start winning and I could have egg on my face

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Ouch.

Here's an idea: Can we change the title of the thread to:

New TC'ers: STAY AWAY

Sorry if I'm defending a Carlton player.

Would I be welcome if I stuck the boots in?

Shakin, I wasn't clear enough. This argument has been done to death, let face it its hard to agree on Campo - Premiership player or salary cup slurper?

I just feel as though we've had this post on a weekly basis since TC began. If I was new to TC the posts may be pretty disappointing given the ranting and raving that goes on.

FWIW, yours was a good'en!

just on the money thing

its not just about what he is doing now, but what he has done - footballers are paid as much for service past and present because their earning cycle is so much less

he is on the vets so only half counts. So even if he is on $400 P.A. is he worth the same as a player on $200 PA? I'd say easily.

Now I have problems with camps but lets not become Salem's lot here.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Sorry molsey my mistake. Pretty sick of it myself.

It's pretty sad this thread.

Firstly i havnt had a shot at Whitnall i think that he is more hampered by lack of fixed position and structure i am more critical of Campo and its his leadership and example i have a problem with.

The best comparison of Campo reminds me a bit of the problems the Bulldogs had with West and Smith and how they failed to use the younger guys and help develope them. That is my big worry that some of the remaining senior players dont use the younger kids or bring them into the game. It hurt the Bulldogs several years ago when Smith and West played for themselves and not the team. Even the Tigers have suffered that last couple of years and both these clubs the senior players have changed there attitudes and are using the kids and younger players. All you need to do is see the results.

I will quote again from Waite when he was BOG recently and Fev was out at games end he said that players went to him and used him and he got results but in previus games we just tried to put it to Whits or Fev and of course the opposition manned up and ran the ball out. Our weakness is the lack of leadership of the Kids and yougsters maybe there is prob with Pagan or from some senior players but something has to change. We need the seniors leading the kids .. giving them confidence and guidence and we sadly lack that at the moment. Kouta tries hard but not the same as he used to be but still effective. Both Campo and Whits have failed in the leadership area badly.. that leaves Stevens who displays more leadership than either Whits or Campo but is not the VC.. thats about the extent of our leadership 4 players. Go through most teams you will find many more senior players who are guiding and leading the kids.. Hawks last year basket case this year the guys who have ben or stepped up include Spider / Crawf / Vanenburg... bit of hack but he is there captain.. / sam mitchell / Joel smith / Hayes /and Hodge though he is an exceptional young player..... thats 7-8 double what the Blues have.

Look through the other clubs and you will find 7-10 players..

In carlton this year we have 2 players showing leadership out of 4 total options .... case closed

I'm obviously made of sterner stuff than you Surrey, if you think that hurt. Surrey "I'm a better Carlton supporter than you because I live in Melbourne" Blue, if you think I'm that soft, well, glad to give you the satisfaction of thinking that I'm hurt because I'm not.

Shakin, they are fair questions, but I'm going to question Sydney Blue as well, what makes it better for you to question Pagan than myself questioning Camporeale? I think if the team is performing poorly, they are both fair targets, but my analysis boils it down to player performance rather than coaching. You can disagree if you wish.

I would also assert that those who live in Melbourne who unless they've spoken to the kids themselves would also have no idea about whether the kids have questioned Camporeale's leadership. If you have, then you obviously have better and more reliable knowledge than myself. However if you haven't, just because you live in Melbourne doesn't mean that you are any better defenders of Camporeale and any better qualified than a person sitting in Sydney who may or may not have some links with the CFC.

I've run into this argument from others re: the home ground issue before and quite frankly I think it's arrogant, it's condescending and it smacks of a fear of the "other" and fear of the fact that the "other" may perhaps be right.

I'm willing to concede that being in Sydney has its disadvantages but unless you have talked to the players yourselves or have information from within the club, then you are in no better position than myself.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Surrey.. yes youre right. Campo and Whitnall are keeping me out of the team.
Listen air head... its not what Campo and Whitnall have done the last few weeks its what they have done for the last few years.


Alot can be said about a player "putting his hand up!".. it breeds positivity and not negativity.
It shouldnt be abour self preservation it should be about whats best for the team.

What ever happened to pride?
Why shouldnt a player like Campo want to put himself up against a player like Arkemanis?????
Why are we happy when our VC on 650k plus a year breaks even with Ben Mathews???

Have we forgotten about the champions of sides gone by???
Cou;ld you imagine Wayne Johnston not putting his hand up to play an Arkemanis???
So what if Arkemanis beats him????
Campo would be waving the flag....

Who is going to wave the flag against Arkemanis???

Some kid???

Get real!!!!

Some of you guys have lost the plot.. if our leaders cant lead what the hell should we call them???
what do we want them for????

And Surrey???? Youre a hypocrite...!!You bag Collo much more than i bag Campo.. Collos given much more service to this club than a couple of broken down has beens like Campo and Whitnall..one refuses to get his body right and the other hides behind his finger....!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

No... cos there isnt anything.. if one eats too much and doesnt get his body right for professional sport when he knows he hasnt got the right kind of body for footy in the first place...

....and the other likes chasing stats and not creating play....

............................and neither stays back at training with kids....

...........................................and both have shown they cant lead...........



What the hell are they good for???ABSOLUTELY NOTHING(SAY IT AGAIN!!!)

Love that song and found myself singing it to me as i typed this..


Now if you can enlighten us to what theyre actually good for that i may have missed?????
Is it helping out the kids like Franchina helped out Setanta???
Extra sessions in the gym to show Russell what it means to keep your body right and your muscle up??

Is it the extra boxing sessions to pick up their aggression rate for battle??
Putting their hand up to play on the dangerous opposition players??

I know???..... pay cuts to fit new good players into the side.. like this year....????

You tell me where they benefit the club ....

.. decisions will be made on them... and that will reflect what their worth to this footy club was in the last few years.....


ITS OVER!!!!!............ no more ..... finito!!!!

The bullshit players like them had over the club are gone.....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.