Its only fair quoting from the site BlueWorld quoted from J.
Consistency son, consistency!

Besides, who'd trust those AFL mongrels?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Campo tackled Collo after the game about his contract... the AFL stats man was there to record it..

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Note Campo layed half the game on the HBF, so his clearences would be down anyways as would tackles because you would be in the play anywhere as much as a midfielder.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Nick Stevens vs. Scott Camporeale Averages 2005

Kicks: 14.9 vs. 15.7 - (-0.8 ) Diff

Hbls: 9.5 vs. 5.1 - (4.4) Diff

Total: 24.5 vs. 20.8 - (3.7) Diff

Marks:

UnC: 2.7 vs. 3.3 - (-0.6) Diff

Cont: 0.2 vs. 0.1 - (0.1) Diff

Ball Gets:

Cont: 1.5 vs. 1.4 - (0.1) Diff

UnC: 8.7 vs. 4.2 - (4.5) Diff

Total: 10.2 vs. 5.6 - (4.6) Diff

Ball Rec'd: 11.8 vs. 12.6 - (-0.8 ) Diff

Hit Outs: 0.1 vs. 0 - (0.1) Diff

Clearances:

#: 4.4 vs. 2.9 - (1.5) Diff

CB: 2.7 vs. 1.3 - (1.4) Diff

Tackles: 4.6 vs. 4.4 - (0.2) Diff

Frees:

For : 1.2 vs. 0.9 - (0.3) Diff

Agst: 1.1 vs. 0.8 - (0.3) Diff

In 50 : 4.9 vs. 5.8 - (-0.9) Diff

Rbd 50: 5.5 vs. 3.3 - (2.2) Diff

Gls: 0.4 vs. 0.3 - (0.1) Diff

Bh: 0.5 vs. 0.3 - (0.2) Diff

M: 0.3 vs. 0.2 - (0.1) Diff

shakin77, would love to know where you get all the contest/uncontes and clearance stats from?

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Not a lot of difference really. The only diference appears to be the uncontested gets which would feed into the handball total. Both are roughly on the same money. One gets slammed week in week out, the other doesn't. Hmmmmm

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Not a lot of difference really?
Out of 20 categories, Campo leads four.

The important ones for midfielders are in my books are possessions, tackles and clearances.
Stevens is averaging about 15% more possessions, 50% more clearances and double the centre bounce clearances.

You're not Campo's manager are you BM?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Yes but the advantages are statisically almost insignificant in most of those catergories. A point something difference is marginal at best

Ps To be honest BV I wouldn't a managers cut of the wages to paid to some.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

So BV, by your conclusion, if the above stats were reversed, Stevo would deserve the criticism now being levelled at Campo?

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No Guts, No Glory

I thought that his numbers weren't too bad for a lazy down hill skier and a cancer on the club.

He gets 4 less uncontested possession a games, which results in 4 less total disposals.

People question Campo's hardness. Interesting to note that tackles and contested ball gets are the same.

Certainly doesn't deserve the attacks that he has received by some based on those numbers unless of course you are judging his game on his perceived game style or by the rants of the jealous husband of Campo’s lover.

Actually Windy, if you go back, you'll see I've not been overly critical of Campo.
In my eyes, he is a good player who is probably playing under his ability.
Nothing would make me happier than to see Campo break some games open.

I just want to make sure we interpret the stats properly to gain a correct picture.
1.5 clearances per game dont seem to make a lot of difference but over 22 games, thats 33 clearances.
If we are making comparisons, lets be accurate.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Yes lets inerpret the stats properly? One plays in the centre square (Stevens) and one rarely does (Camporeale) so whats that 20+ more chances a game for Stevens to get a clearence. What about Stevens averaging 2.2 more in rebounding the ball outside defensive 50 and .9 less then Campo into the forward 50. Now 2.2 isn't much but over 22 games thats about 48.4 more cheap possessions in the backline! Isn't Campo the one who cops it for getting cheap stats in the backline or once again is it selective. Thats accurate.
Once again they play exactly the same game and only one cops it.
BAH!

Uncontested ball gets includes stats that include when a ball is kicked into space and there is no pressure on a player to go and pick it up. Contested ball get is when there is a player hot on your hammer and you get the ball and dispose correctly.

It could be interpreted scott that Stevens runs harder and tries to win the ball in space, but that's precisely why stats are misleading. They can be read many ways.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Camporeale played in and out of the centre square for years.
And he has this year.
How often was he top 10 in the AFL for CB clearances let alone number 1 like Stevens?
Stevens plays there because he is effective.

As you stated Stevens averages more rebound 50s as well.
Is that a negative?
I'd prefer our midfielders to get back and help the backline.
I'm sure Pagan would as well.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Yeah if Stevens get possessions across the half-back line it's "not a negative" and it's a midfielder "getting back" to help the backline. But if Camporeale gets possessions across half-back they're automatically "cheap" possessions from running past players looking for the easy give off, at least according to some posters. This is what's hypocritical. Stevens' possessions are apparently heroically earned and act as such a driving force whereas Camporeale's are soft, cheap touches picked up in the backline that take us nowhere. Doesn't make sense!

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Stats can be misleading.......effort made, short steps put in when long ones were required etc dont make th stat sheet.....the tackle missed when at a crucial stage doesnt make the stat sheet either....both of them rack up far too many soft ones IMHO ....

re: Helping the backline?....helping themselves to the easy recieve more like it...helping the backline is blocking leads, spoiling etc..neither of them do that so lets tell the truth...we need to work out how many of these type of players we can afford....you need them to carry the ball an create but we have too manyt carriers and not enough players getting the ball in a honest way....our overall stats are poor..we just dont get the footy enough..

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I find it amazing that we are argueing over who gets the soft possessions out of Campo and Stevens when we have 15-16 others in the side who are not even getting the ball at all. At least these two do something to get the ball . I wish we had 3 or 4 others in the side racking up the same amount of possessions these two get

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You're right, it doesnt make sense.
But where have I said that?
I dont begrudge Campo or Stevens getting back to help out. If we run the ball, its better than kicking to contests.
If they deliver into the forward 50, its a bonus as well.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

It's all good and well to look and the stats and say, oh geez, because they have similar possesions they are both the same...Campo is NOT the same as Stevens, Stevo doesn't play for cheap frees, he doesn't stupidly get reported and as it has been said before is one of the hardest working and most professional players at the club, he deserves his current salary, Campo does not...Who is the player that sometimes takes the boys into a huddle at 3qtr time and talks to them before the coach gets there, Stevo, he shows LEADERSHIP....Now im not saying Campo is crap, but he is overpaid for what he does and IMO Stevo shouldn't even be compared to Campo...It's not about Stevo being heroic, its about him putting in the hard yards on and off the field...

PS: Stats don't prove anything, 80% of people know that!!

One question... because some of you think stats tell the story.. who does the club rely on more?
If one or the other missed the season ..., which do you think would we LEAST be able to afford more??

Easy question....

For those that pretend their worth is equal...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.