Some might say a moving target is harder to hit.




Huge generalisation. Arguments could be made that players are more loyal now than they were in the 60s 70s or 80s. There are plenty of examples around now of individual players turning down big money to stay at clubs.

Don't let your rosy view of history get in the way.

Don't become one of those old men who say 'when I was a boy'.




Are you seriously trying to argue that Media coverage of football is at the same levels or lower now than it was 40 years ago?



C'mon dannyboy, putting words in my mouth there. I dislike Warne more than most, but even he would have a successful captain at test level. So would you!




I reckon Waite has got "IT". One more year from Kouta then Waite is ready and the Waite will be over for leadership.

Can't Waite.

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

Have to disagree Danny. When I see Jarrad play I see a kid with enormous talent who tackles and harasses ferociously and hates to lose as much as he loves the jumper.

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill

IMHO Jarrad Waite has played very few games of consistent 4 quarter footy.
He is a talent in the making but he has a long way to go.
He hasnt established himself a position yet let alone be captain.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I'm tipping he won't retire. I'm tipping his 5 year deal will see him remain at the Saints for at least that long or until the Saints pay him out. I'm tipping Hamil will be a poison chalice to St Kilda and I'm also tipping Hamil will play less than half a season each year for the remainder of his career with not a pay cut in sight.

Finally I'm tipping Jarrad Waite to be a future captain of this club and be part of a resurgent golden era that will confine the events of the previous 3-4 years to history.

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The great are great to us only because we are on our knees. Let us arise.
--Robert Collier

Hamill's a prick

Waite and T-bird rock

(Sorry, just wanted to push another Hamill thread towards ten pages)

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

'IMO Waite is the next cab off the rank'. Okay let's start with this - Waite may be a good footballer soon - he is not yet - to make the leap into next captain is just fantasy land - when has he led???? I mean it astounds me that you can even think this. Give the kid a break. Maybe, maybe in 5 years time he might look like a capotain - but to be certain, and to say he is next - just reeks of desperation.



'Being a captain nowadays is a lot different than it was in Barrasi's time, for starters media and promotional commitments are much larger.' Barass handled himself in the media and did it easily - loved it. He would have handled today just as easily - don't tell me you are one of those who actually thinks the wheels only just been invented?

'It sounds nice that we can buy a captain but that is not as easy as it used to be, even when it was easy, it was not easy.' Who said it was easy?


'Joe Blow off the street could have captained the Australian cricket team to success over the last few years.' So just how am i putting words into your mouth - if Joe Blow could then surely Warney could - or anyone else - i thought that was your point with this statement. and of all your crap this is the silliest. Not everyone could, you couldn't I couldn't. its a silly statemnt - shit and you think i make some - The aussie side is the best (and is staying that way) because it is well led! - One of the factors (not the only) that led to West Indian demise in cricket was the lack of leadership after Richards. Doesn't take long for a side to falby the way side in any sport, especially without a leader.

'The leadership issue is important, but it can also be overblown.' Well gee so can any issue - what a stupid way to arguue, this is an important issue so lets discuss it. It may get overblown in some threads but i think the club won;t be too affected by our debate.

I mean Jarusa if you are going to try and belittle my points then try and stop generalising or pulling ninsensical rabbits out of your hat. Sheesh talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

Yes this is a meandering thread I like it that way but really the point is where are our captains - oh you think waite, fine i disagree, and how did we get to this point - I think because the club made a call between Whits and hamill and were wrong, you think, what exactly? That its fine, not to worry, Waite is the next cab off the rank.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Good to see you fired up dannyboy.

Waite, 20, made his senior début this year and has played 18 matches. Blues president Ian Collins touted the pair as future leaders of the struggling club, when the announcement was made on Wednesday.

“These guys are going to mature into very, very good citizens of the Carlton Football Club and they’re our future leaders,â€

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

I think Waite and Thornton are potential leaders but have cooled on both of them to a degree.
Bret Thonton to me is struggling and the pressure of being the main man down back has caught up with him and he is frustrated with some of his temmates and shows ordinary body language at times.
Both are going to be 200 games players IMHo but both need some direction themselves at this stage of their career and need someone mature to take the heat of them.
I'm not in the Stevens camp either..wonderful player but doesnt have the presence to lead IMHO.
Pagan had a very strong captain in Carey and that allowed him freedom to coach and plan...Carey looked after the player group and disiplined them..you did what you were told or you were sent to coventry and played ressies....thats fact from a ex Roo player...who hated Carey as many of the younger players did....but it was an arrangement that worked for Pagan.

The idea of a imported player with some presence and ability may have merit....we need a leader who can work with Pagan like Carey did and exact a firm hand. Pagan needs the right structure to do his stuff and the leadership/captain side of it needs fixing. Kouta is a nice bloke but not a long term skipper.
Its not an easy fix...want a wild idea..offer for a loose cannon like Michael Gardiner..sure the man has a history now but he might have some presence and potential and might surprise...sometimes you have to try things....could be the making of him and as Carey showed its not always angels that make the best captains...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Elwood I don't think that Thornton is playing any worse defensively, but I think that his decision making coming out of defence is what's really hurting us at the moment. He is trying to be creative and it's not always his fault but I think he's costing us with some of his disposal and decision making. On his body language, to be honest I reckon it's been ordinary really from when he first started playing. I don't like how he has a go at other players in the defence for not doing something correctly. I know that he's passionate and seems to care about the club but it looks poor. I wonder if Denis has ever pulled him up on it. A lot is made on Fev's at times poor body language but not much on Thornton's and I think that's a bit unfair.

I think that down the track Thornton could potentially be a leader but I wouldn't put any money on it. I think that if he can improve his sometimes poor body language and start to channel it into something more like a positive encouragement that will be a good sign. One thing about Thornton is that he seems quiet off the field but on it he is passionate Carlton and really wants us to win. He has a good attitude in terms of never wanting to be beaten either personally in a contest or as a team. Perhaps as he progresses he'll learn to stop venting his frustration at others because I think he has some good traits that might make him a good leader sometime in the future.

With Waite, at this stage it would seem that captaincy is a long way off for mine. I reckon he should just be allowed to play his natural game unburdened by any extra responsiblity for the next few seasons. Waite strikes me as the sort of player that sort of just has to be 'released' and told to just play footy. He looks the goods at the moment and should be allowed to continue to develop, with the captaincy an option some way into the future.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

yes jarusa i think the club has 'hopes' inthese two much as it once did inlance being the next Sticks and brings as back to my starting point (well sort of )I think you cannot label someone a leader just 'cos they are good footballers - St Kilda is finding this out in a big way - I remember Waite in his first year playing in the ressies (now the ressies are good 'cos you can go into the 3/4 huddle and have a look at 'em. Waite is intense and eager - maybe one day that will translate into a leader but at that time Angwin was by far the more potent leader because he had the self-confidence belief. waite needs to develop a lot more of this before i think he can be alled upon to lead.

But (I think I just got side-tracked there) my real point is in t-Bird and waite I hope the club is calling it correctly this time and is developing them so one day they can lead us back to where we should be. At this point though i must say, i see little evidence of that.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Have we hit ten pages yet?

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

10 pages eh?

Tell me about your childhood

Uncle Tim used to beat me.







































at monopoly.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Does this help:

When liberty valance came to town

The women folk would hide

Theyd hide

When liberty valance walked around

The men would step aside

Because the point of a gun

Was the only law that liberty understood

When it came to shooting

Straight and fast

He was mighty good



From out of the east a stranger came

A law book in his hand

A man the kind of man

The west would need to ease a troubled land

Because the point of a gun

Was the only law that liberty understood

When it came to shooting

Straight and fast

He was mighty good



Many a man would face his gun

And many a man would fall

The man who shot liberty valance

He shot liberty valance

He was the bravest of them all



Now the love of a woman can make a man

Stay on when he should go

Stay on

Just trying to build a peaceful life

Where love is free to go

But the point of a gun

Was the only law that liberty understood

When it came to shooting

Straight and fast

He was mighty good



Alone and afraid she prayed that hed

Return that fateful night

That night

When nothing she said could keep her man

From going out to fight

But the point of a gun

Was the only law that liberty understood

When the final showdown came to pass

A law book was no good



Out in the sun two shots rang out

The shots made liberty fall

The man who shot liberty valance

He shot liberty valance

He was the bravest of them all

gee deano why don't we do six pages of humourous threads on rambo

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

That's not a bad idea at all.

Is anyone else intrigued as to who Rambo will select as POW?

EDIT: YAY!! TEN PAGES!!

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Gotta be Dannyboy surely? Started a 10 page thread...

All good points DB - I totally agree with you regarding Thomas and St Kilda - but I totally disagree with you regarding Shane Warne.
Everytime I have seen him captain a team at any level he has impressed me with with his shrewdness and his agressive attitude. I would love to see him captain the Test team, but I know it won't happen.

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Princes Park - always was, always will be.

No I think Warne would have signalled the begining of the end, might have been good but by the end there would be so many shite attitudes in the team we'd lose 10 years cleaning it all out - sound familair?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I think I should point out The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is on Fox Classics tonight, and Aaron Hamill may well make an appearance on The Man Show on The Comedy Channel later tonight also.

Are the stars aligning?