synbad - for christ sake - who is saying bring back brittan.

we used his as an example - we are playing arguably worse that we did in 02 and every single bit of negative crap that could be thrown on brittain was and done with glee by alot of people.

Pagan excapes the same negative crap? why?

If Pagan is such the hard man that you like to suggest, why doesnt he drop campo, why doesnt he drop Stevens, why doesnt he do this and that.

This is the point Synbad and you seem blind to it.

Pagan isnt doing anything.

He isnt playing the kids, he drops livo and teague, when i could think of several other players that clearly deserved to be dropped before him.

In the remote chance that he does play a kid he gives them all of 3 mins on the field i.e. O'Halphin.

There is no positive vibe at this club - and it is the coach's responsbility to ensure there is. Regardless of playing talent.

Make no mistake - this is the lowest that the club has ever been, and its three years down the track people. How much longer can we use the excuse of no PP Elliot was a crook, the old board was shit etc.. etc..

Draw a line in the flower sand and say enough is enough. Make the decisions now. If Campo goes at the end of the year, @#$%&! him, dont play him again for the rest of the year.

let Pagan make the hard call.

I actually like pagan but in his time out our club i have really questioned three things.

1. Getting Mick Martyn - was a flower joke.
2. The way he handled certain champion players i.e. Ratten, Hickmont and Co.
3. His lack of action in this season

But it is the last one that has really got up my nose.

Lets have this hard man that you suggest he is Synbad, lets have him mkae the hard calls now. Drop Whitnall, Drop Stevens, Drop Kouta, Drop Campo, drop anyone if they arent preforming week in week out.

But it doesnt happen. It hasnt happened and it wont happened this season.

This is the lowest and darkest period the club has ever had to face and IMO Pagan is as much to blame as the players themselves.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

If he drops Campo and Stevens everyone will accuse him of tanking.
It miht also hamper Campo and Lance from being traded.
cant trade something you cant see...

Look.. stuff is going to change come the end of the year...

Decisions will be made.
In my opinion Lances future has already being decided and it was last year...

thats a good thing in my opinion.
He isnt professional or meticulous in the way he prepares himself
In my opinion the hard decion should ba made on Campo too.. Unfortunately he is also Kernahans business partner fellow South Australian with Braddles in that set up.. and ex premiership player. Kernahan is chairman of selectors and in my opinion a great guy but wants to be nice to EVERYBODY!!!!

Campo needs to be turfed out of the club because he doesnt care!!!!
That leads Kouta and you wait for him to finish his contract and get him to retire with the grace he deserves... but he is no LEADER!!!!

The contracts killed us..

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

because if he drops them we might win! (shhhh we're tanking) hey The AFL don't monitor these sites do they?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Do you really believe that Synbad? I don't think you do...

Synbad oppositon clubs and coaches aren't stupid...Campo has played > 200 games and Lance > 150! The clubs know what their strengths and weaknesses are whether they play 3 or 4 games in the VFL or not it makes no difference! They are not second year players Synbad who the clubs might not have seen before!

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

oh pokay you two just talk amongst yourselves i'm going over here and i'm fdropping my daks and moooooooooniiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnggggg you both cos, well i am sensible and all and if you donlt include me I'll, I'll hold my breathe til i explode uuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (but only notice the face when its red)

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Like we knew McGuane., ORèilly, Mansfield, Eccles, Davenports weaknesses???

Like Geelong knew Ottens weaknesses???
North knew Thompson was a depressed bloke but they still took him BECAUSE everyone thinks they can do better than the last coach.. they fancy themselves(See Corey coming to Carlton then to North) but if you drop him if the clubs are trying to make a deal.. they say... "but he was dropped!!!" Notice how Denis says Lance is a required player???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I wrote a post about this a couple of weeks ago and my opinion has not changed. He must either be traded or delisted and should not be given a new contract. He is a cancer on the club. I suspect what ballistic blues hinted at in the Teague thread may have more truth to it than we want to believe; with Teague saying senior players are back to their ways I can only imagine who he's referring to.

I don't care what Pagan says publicly, surely he is not that stupid to see that Camporeale is a bloopin' disgrace at the moment, and he was that even before his knee injury.

I've got little time for senior players who when the club is at almost its lowest ebb fail to stand up and try their utmost to pick the club off the canvas. Complete lack of character.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

The thing is - some people dont actually read - they just regurgitate the same old crap - when flaws are highlighted in their arguements all you get is more crap and excuses. I dont know why I bother anymore. In fact, I probably wont bother posting on the main boards for the forseeable future.

4th chicken dont leave me here on own

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

synbad wrote

Think its time to get the footys back out because we can't kick for sh!t.

This is interim stuff...we need Pagan for Grand Final season and getting our next flag...doesnt matter much what happens in between....

Whether it be Wallace, Worsfold, Thomas or Pagan the method has the method the same. Clear the decks and start again and recruit the best kids by getting the best picks.
We all know whats wrong....the playing list is shite...solution..fix by drafting the best kids....Wallace has already started at Richmond...we are a season behind.......we are paying the extra for Pagan to get us a premeirship when he has the players...lets see how Wallace goes when its crunch time......no excuses...I'll be backing Pagan to win a flag before Terry in fact...Terry probably will have moved to his next big contract when the honeymoon period and early draft picks dry up...

Lets not be sucked into short term thinking...we will have ups and dowsn but when we are back up there we will have a premiership coach with the runs on the board....Eade, Wallace and co have won nothing....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Yeah we had great skills under Brittain too... Beaumont Fletcher.the big trade he did.. ECCLES...Plunkett..Franchina... yep bring him back.... wheres he coach again???
so shit skills and shit physiques.. as wello as shit list management and shit contracts .. shit trades.. shit draft picks.. no woner were [REDACTED]!!!...

Bring him back.. we havent had enough pain!!!

By the way are you Glenn Manton???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Every time I read an article by Archer in the HUN, he never ceases to praise Pagan. The Kanga guys rever Pagan, and it seems like our lot couldn't give a stuff.

To me that means the power balance is out of wack.

My only criticsim of Pagan is his tacit put down of the playing list. IMO a coach just shouldn't do that. He should leave that stuff to Collo and Kerna.

I still think Pagans the man for the Job.

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The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time
A garden to nurture and protect

#DopeThenStash

just on the put downs.

from what I've read and heard, denis simply states we lack talent. he hasn't knocked the players as such, rather bemoaned the affects of the penalties. now surely even the players know whats what!

I would think this could do two things. make those who have strength of charchter grab the chance even tighter and rpoive their worth or those fragile enough to fall into despair.

Either way this is sport - I only want the strong ones.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

i think this has broken the record for most replies to a thread (not including warren of coarse)....the last would have been th karl norman rent thing...

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R A D I C A L B R O T H E R S

Inspired by the One-Minute Sculptures of Erwin Wurm

"All in all is all we are..."

as I said Dannyboy, its a tacit put down. And you are right, if the players had any gumption, and self respect, they would STILL be putting in 100% to prove their worth. Some have (especially the youngies - betts, waite, thornton) but the middle and top tier to a large extent haven't. This is what is going to hurt us for a few years to come.

Still, with a lot of players with bruised egos, is it realy wise to drone on about our lack of talent? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to the playing group for the coach to "side step" that argument?

We all know Pagan is no-ones fool. He is making these comments for a reason - while I don't agree with it, I suspect its his way of putting a cracker up the playing lists collective arse - a way of shaking down the list to see who really wants to be a part of the future.

Only problem is, if you are going to loose the support of half the list in doing so, and knowing you can't turn over half a list at seasons end, I recon you are breeding a cancer through the club by doing so.

Just my oppinion, but I would have thought it would be better to massage the egos - piss off who you don't want at the end of the year - and make those on the list come the chop feel valued.

Again, just MHO.

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The measure of a life is a measure of love and respect
So hard to earn, so easily burned
In the fullness of time
A garden to nurture and protect

#DopeThenStash

IMO Chucky, he would have told the players who he wanted next year privately they were not being referred to in these comments. Players like Thornton, Waite, Walker, Fev etc. who we know do have talent.

However, given the number of good players we have who have performed reasonably (few), I would expect this wouldn't even run to half the current best 22. Those with bruised egos and who don't like Pagan anymore will be in the side and will therefore drop off, causing us to play like we have 15 men (which to be frank is what it looks like).

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

[quote="CarltonClem"]IMO Chucky, he would have told the players who he wanted next year privately they were not being referred to in these comments. Players like Thornton, Waite, Walker, Fev etc. who we know do have talent.

quote]


Add Stevens Lappin and French to that list... and of course Betts Russell and Hartlett.. Setanta and the rest are not considered core .

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Just like he did all year about Hulme, before delisting him at the end of that year.