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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:58 am 
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Bruce Doull
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ThePrez wrote:
camelboy wrote:

Friday night football, ANZAC day, Queens Birthday Monday are just some other examples of marketing ideas that we could and should have been part of. But we missed out. And how many times do we have to keep missing out. How much does it shit you that Collingwood is always the club mentioned whenever there's some sort of fixturing coup that will bring them more bums on seats...


im ready to pounce on this one.

so you agree that the board should have done more to ensure that we played our majority of games at the MCG to get more bums on seats?


No I don't agree. I am satisfied that the current board did the best they could. Maybe I'm hoodwinked, maybe I'm not, but that's my belief.

But I'm not happy at some of the opportunities the previous board missed. And that's why I'm thankful they're the previous board and not the current one.

;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:41 am 
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Craig Bradley
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you see, this is what i really fail to understand CB.

i cant see how you can say the previous board was crap (which it was in the end, no arguments there) but then say everything the current board is doing is okay.

IMO - neither board has been over impressive.

We all know my stance on our current board, as well as the past board, but what i cant understand is how you and many others are so quick to shit can the previous board but let the current board get away without any scrutiny. And good forbid the backlash when you say the current board hasnt performed as well as you would have liked it to.

The one thing the current board has done - is have the courage to consider leaving OO - and that is a good thing, but i dont think our club got anything like a good deal in the process.

IMO we gave up so much, yet got very little in return and that falls squarely on the shoulders of the board.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:51 am 
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Craig Bradley
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CarltonClem wrote:
Can't do much if the AFL won't schedule you in for that and won't pay you out of the contracts at Optus if you go to the MCG. .


misinformation no .1.

all the catering contracts we had in place would have been simple transferred to the MCG, indeed i would suspect that contractors would have far preferred being at the MCG due to greater attendance anyway

The money that the MCC was prepared to offer around 3 million (im not sure but i think the MCC was prepared to match the AFL Cash incentive) to move there would have far outweighed any other existing contract we had in place and allow us to pay them out yet still have a few dollars to put in the bank.

My understand of what the AFL offered around 3 million as well was to simply pay our out contracts and leave us with minimal cash for ourselves.

The only real reason we appeared not to be able to go to the MCG was the AFL lack of ability to schedule more games there. Yet, now we hear they are able to do so to accomodate Collingwood? Come on people, open you eyes.

We are tied to a ten year deal at TD becuase they bloody well knew that they Collingwood would be moving to the MCG and would need another High drawing club to fill the TD i.e. Carlton.

Its restraint of trade if ive ever seen one. The AFL has effectivly stopped Carlton from making money at the MCG by playing at a ground that doesnt hold as much, yet given, well it appears they will give Collingwood permission, to play more games there, to make more money.

There are two teams involved in this Collingwood and Carlton - and the better board has won IMO.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
Sedat wrote:
Bookie wrote:
Elwood/Sedat just to carry the argument, Footscray have had more handouts than a Saudi robbery Court and will still fail especially once they stop getting their yearly priority picks (aka young talent development). I think the comparison is fair.
They have proven themselves, financially and on-field inept over one hundred years.
Sedat Footscray wasn't even in our league, you didn't need to breach the cap because no one ever wanted to play for you blokes anyway -ask Rawlings, Brown.
If you think we were the only"real" team over the cap your dreaming. Other clubs couldn't be professional in player dealing so the AFL made a rule to give you talent anyway.
Sorry but I'm sick of people assuming that they know all about how we won 16 premierships through being professional sorry "buying premierships".

Bookie, as a kid growing up, the name Carlton was synonymous with wealth, success, vision and professionalism, and they were a club that was admired for these qualities. I used to watch your club in awe in the early 80's. The point I was making in my previous post (and reinforced by Camel and Headplant) is that the Carlton name has lost that aura, and that has been primarily through the fault of the club itself for failing to see the winds of change (apologies for the Scorpions reference). The notion of "buying" premierships is totally irrelevent, as what was conducted by clubs during that period was completely within the rules. Plenty of other clubs threw money around left, right and centre during that time and won diddly squat. Carlton worked harder and were more successful as a result.

The whole hand-out mentality that is thrust upon the Dogs/Roos etc.. is the biggest furphy of all time. We are screwed annually by the vagaries of the AFL draw, (Fox Footay matches v Freo on a Sunday arvo are not quite as attractive for potential sponsors as having 8-10 Friday night games on prime time Ch. 9, are they) and the CBF is there to compensate those clubs as a result. You're dead right that our previous administrations being financially reckless in the 70's and 80's, but you tell me one club (apart from maybe Carlton) who lived within their means during that time. New Magpies ring a bell? Save our skins? 11c in the dollar at Moorabbin? I'm sure there's more. With the threadbare resources at our disposal, I doubt you will find 2 more competent and astute leaders than David Smorgan and Campbell Rose. As for losing players that we really wanted to keep, we've lost as many in the last 10 years as you have, one, and that was purely a financial decision, just like yours.

As for PP's, we have 2 of those at our club, Farren Ray and Tom Williams. Young Tom is a project player who will take a year or two. You have one in Walker. Contrary to perception, we only spent 2 seasons in the bottom 4 (thanks once again Rohder for the recession we had to have) and in our entire history in the AFL we've only won 4 spoons, which suggests to me that we have been fighting out of our weight division for 80 years and usually end up mid range. But what the hell, perceptions are hard to change.

Finally, I'm not so ingnorant to know that other clubs have breached the salary cap and cheated the system. The penalties handed out to Carlton were draconian to say the least, but they cannot be blamed for the current lack of 100-150 gamers on your list - the backbone players that sides like Port, Brisbane and Essendon* have won the last 5 flags on the back of. These guys would have been drafted in 1996-1999, and that black hole of recruiting at Carlton has been devastating to the shape of your list at present IMO.


Agree 100% with everything you say in here Sedat. I admire clubs like Footscray and the Kangaroos who are up against it financially yet always seem to produce competitive teams.

There's no doubt our problems have been caused by (a) ridiculous player contracts, (b) AFL penalties and (c) poor recruiting (exacerbated by the lack of salary cap space and lack of draft picks in recent years although our misguided picks in the late 90s were all our own doing). As a few posters have already mentioned, it won't be until we address the player payment issue (hopefully by the end of season 2006) that we can start building a balanced list.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:16 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Prez our current board acts in the best interest of the AFL . We are not the strong club that we used to be and we cooperate with the AFL as much as possible as we are reliant on them for favourable fixturing and handouts. Do not be surprised if the AFL asks Carlton to start scheduling games elsewhere as well. Much like North and the saints and the doggies.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:19 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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ThePrez wrote:
you see, this is what i really fail to understand CB.

i cant see how you can say the previous board was crap (which it was in the end, no arguments there) but then say everything the current board is doing is okay.

IMO - neither board has been over impressive.

We all know my stance on our current board, as well as the past board, but what i cant understand is how you and many others are so quick to shit can the previous board but let the current board get away without any scrutiny. And good forbid the backlash when you say the current board hasnt performed as well as you would have liked it to.

The one thing the current board has done - is have the courage to consider leaving OO - and that is a good thing, but i dont think our club got anything like a good deal in the process.

IMO we gave up so much, yet got very little in return and that falls squarely on the shoulders of the board.


Exactly. Well Said. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:23 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Do not be surprised if the AFL asks Carlton to start scheduling games elsewhere as well. Much like North and the saints and the doggies.


You know the funny thing was, I was thinking about this very thing just this week. I can see Collo now coming out and saying we need the "cash" from these interstate games. :roll: I swear, I will go off my f**king head. :twisted:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:35 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Contract signed with the AFL. We don't have to do it, if we are forced to, the AFL would have to pay us damages for breach of contract.

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 Post subject: David Mckay
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:06 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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on Saturday said the board had not and would not contemplate playing home games interstate so seems to be a furphy


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:18 pm 
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Robert Walls
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SurreyBlue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Do not be surprised if the AFL asks Carlton to start scheduling games elsewhere as well. Much like North and the saints and the doggies.


You know the funny thing was, I was thinking about this very thing just this week. I can see Collo now coming out and saying we need the "cash" from these interstate games. :roll: I swear, I will go off my f**king head. :twisted:


If you are going to use statements like these, you should understand what they mean. These Clubs are scheduling games interstate etc in part to try and improve their membership numbers by exposing their team to a greater potential audience. It is not just because the AFL told them so. You can add Hawthorn to that list as well. It is well known that Hawks and Kangaroos games were scheduled interstate at the initiative of those Clubs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Haven't we signed a ridiculously long contract to play 6 games at the Dome and 5 at the G though?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:59 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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fevolaaaa wrote:
Haven't we signed a ridiculously long contract to play 6 games at the Dome and 5 at the G though?


Why wouldnt we have signed that contract ????

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Sydney Blue wrote:
Prez our current board acts in the best interest of the AFL . We are not the strong club that we used to be and we cooperate with the AFL as much as possible as we are reliant on them for favourable fixturing and handouts. Do not be surprised if the AFL asks Carlton to start scheduling games elsewhere as well. Much like North and the saints and the doggies.


And you know this or is it more of a fart in your own hand and a sniff with a trip again???

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