I don't know of any specific stories regarding Ratten like the Beaumont one but as the captain at the time it was incumbent upon him to get the players to toe the line whether he liked what they were being asked to do or not. The role of a captain is not to lead (or at the very least allow) a player revolt in the first year of a new coach's contract (or at any time for that matter).

At best Ratten had no influence over the "revolting" players and at worst he was a leading figure. Either way it's not great captaincy is it? Unfortunately he couldn't put the club first and whilst I'll forever remember him as a great footballer he'll also go down as pretty much the worst captain to have led (read not led) the club.

Oh Matty. Why don't you leave it for your manager to speak for you?

Or doesn't he speak for 10% of base salary??!! Cos thats probably all you are getting at Essendon*, and all we were prepared to pay, and simply all you've been worth.

Was always a big fan, but your results and your attiitude your last years at Carlton put a bad taste in everyones mouth.

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

Yes the Allison disciples are going gangbusters.
Mattys playing for Bendigo 2s on base money.
Aaron plays a couple of games a year.
Franger and Pup got delisted, Maccas retired and Kouta is coming to an end.

Happy days for big Dave.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

If you're referring to round 22 2003 McKay was captain & Ratten had already retired.

They also edited out this last bit....

"Yes, I thought I was making a great sacrifice for the club after being injured palying for minimum payments so long as the bron paper bags still arrived at Dave's place....but then these new people had no respect for us and just turmned the whole thing into the AFL.

I was so dissillusioned until Sheedy said that all I had to do was register www.MatthewAllan.com.au and I would be given a go at the Bombers. He also mentioned that Ron said it was Ok even thoough I didn't know who Ron was....I couldn't get to Windy Hill fast enough"

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

How is it sounding off? He said he wished he could have stayed at Carlton. He did more for the club than everyone here put together. Pagan treated the old guard poorly now karma has come back and bit him on the ar$e, problem is we are the ones who suffer while he is rolling in money.

I'll alwyas remember Aggot as "the bloke that kicked the ball for Matty Lappin's hanger in 1999"

And nothing else.

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Congratulations CK95

Sorry - badly worded on my part - I didn't mean he was captain for that match. It's reasonably well known that McKay spat it at half time he was so sick of what was going on. He didn't give up trying throughout the rest of the match.

I've never heard any suggestion that Ratten did anything to attempt to curb the "revolting" behaviour of his players of whom he was captain for the bulk of that season.

Because the person that started that rumour didn't get around to making up something about Ratts.

The Game, I couldn't disagree more.

Matty Allan got paid by the club to play footy. He got paid more than the Prime Minister does. He didn't turn up to training and play on Saturday because he loved the club. It was because he got paid more than five grand a week, and the members and supporters and sponsors and the people at home who watch on telly gave him that money.

It was his job.

The people on this site (well, most of them anyway) give to the club, not take from the club. Yes, he gave us some good games of football. The club gave him well over a million dollars ($1,000,000 - whoo, that's a lotta zero's) to play those games.

You're kidding yourself if you think guys like Matthew Allan 'gave' to the club. They played football for money. Nothing more, nothing less.

How many games have you played for Carlton John?

Perhaps he could have made a public statement backing the coach when there was speculation that the two didn't see eye to eye?

As I said originally I don't know of any specific stories about Ratten at that time but as a captain at best he was completely ineffective and didn't make any sort of stand to curb the player dissent.

That's got nothing to do with rumour.

Internet rumours! Who here was in the huddle when Manton said lets lose by 10 goals then Allan said nah lets make it 20? Don't believe everything you here.

Nothing to do with rumour Game.

Can you read?

Are you denying there was any player dissent in 2003?

If not then what did Ratten do to curb it?



I don't but I'm also loathe to stick my head in the sand and assume that just because a player pulls on a Carlton jumper he's a great bloke and has the best interests of the club in mind at all times.

I'd rather base my opinions on what I see and what I saw in 2003 was a captain of a football club who wasn't worthy of the title. He's still a great footballer - just a shithouse captain.

So other than a couple of spooky lurkers none of us can have opinions on the CFC because we haven't played?

Crap.

It's a "break glass in case of emergency" argument.

What have we done for the club?

Paid the players fu.cking wages through memberships, that's what.

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Congratulations CK95

Didn't mean it like that hammer. The question was for John who thinks he has contributed more to Carlton than Mathew Allan.

Even on a one on one basis I still reckon John wins.

Considering his erudite and witty posts over a long period of time both here and at TBV previously and from this particular Carlton supporter's perspective I'm happy to say John's given me more viewing pleasure than Matty Allan's 2-3 years of good football ever did...

Not sure if I agree with that as a principle GWS. While a club needs cohesion and discipline, blindly accepting a coaches behaviour no matter what is not really what we are after. I don't know the detail of DPs run ins with various players, maybe he handled it right every time, maybe not, but great players have questioned coaches in the past. Walls said he should have belted Ian Stewart when Stewie questioned his committment, and Stewie fell to a players revolt (aka heart attck) after a couple of months. Walls took responsibility for losing the players in 88 as did Parkin at Fitzroy in 1987. Maybe the players behaved badly in 03 but I find it hard to accept that Ratts was 100% wrong disloyal bastard who should be utterly vilified while Pagan is 100% right no matter what he does. Caoching is people management, maybe, just maybe Pagan has some room to improve in that area.

If a coach has had a few years in the job and has experienced a time when the players have played FOR him (as Walls and Parkin both did) and then loses the players then you'd have to question the coach but when a new coach enters a club with some new beliefs and a regime which includes such astounding inconveiences as actually lifting weights I believe it is the job of the captain to help get the team onside and give the new coach every opportunity to have an effect.

Problem is from day one the players didn't give him a fair go. They bitched and moaned and said they wanted their "mate" Brittain back.

I've no doubt Pagan's not a perfect coach. I don't believe they exist. That said, he should have been given a chance to implement his beliefs and strategies and if that doesn't work then it's the role of the board to decide what to do.

Players taking it upon themselves to rebel from such an early stage is simply arrogant, way out of line and not in the long term interests of the football club we love.

Pagan's record suggests that it's possible for players to get behind him and excel using his methods. Unfortunately OUR players weren't up to it.

I'm happy to judge him more harshly when I see a committed group doing the hard things week in week out and we're still not getting anywhere. At the moment (as in 2003) that isn't happening and regardless of what message or instruction a coach gives a player it's still the player's call as to whether he commits to a contest or not. Deciding not to because you don't like the coach's tactics isn't a valid response regardless of the coach's "people management" ability.

Fair call GWS. I thought the 'revolt' occured in the second half of the season rather than from then outset. Still find it hard to pin a lot of blame on Ratts. He was retired, in disappointing circumstances in my view, well before the end of the season. Still DP has a hard job from here on in. Don't envy his task of getting us out of this mess. But I just hope (to use a DPism) he doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.