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 Post subject: Why Flood ?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:36 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 1959
Location: Elwood
Please shed some light on this topic for me. We are getting pumped and we continue to flood. What benefits are gained by flooding ,just as we did today in the second half.

Is this Pagans way of conceiding ? Having played a little bit of football myself in the SFL (Southern Football League ) and having played in successful and dreadful teams, the one thing that i remember we used to do when a side got 3 goals on end was man up. Go man on man. Why doesn't Pagan like the man on man theory ?

With flooding there are no options up field. You might get the ball but where do you go with it ? More often sideways, and the more sideways you go the greater the likelihood of getting nowhere, let alone more room for errors. Then again when you do attempt to go forward, its a game of ping pong, the ball comes straight back and in many cases bypasses the player who attempted to move it forward, and we are caught out again.

When i used to coach juniors ( little tackers ) the one thing that i always used to stress was that you need to continue to run into the right spaces, continue to back yourself when you see an opening and never drop your head.. It might not always come to when you go into the right spaces, but by doing this you are at the very least creating room for others, and if you are playing in a good team your team mates will automatically know where to send the ball. It becomes instinctive.

Backing yourself, well it gives you the player some room for errors, errors which as a coach you wouldn't penalise your player for. This builds self confidence.

Never dropping your head, one always plays for pride and if you don't have pride in the jumper ,at the very least you need to have pride in yourself.

Can someone tell me how flooding is helping our development as a football side ?
Can someone tell me how flooding is helping a players self confidence ?
Can someone please tell me how Flooding is an instinctive part of our football code ?

Can someone please, please, pretty please, shed some light on why even if we are going to get pumped week in week out why we don't try to play Football the way it used to be played the way it should be played, otherwise why pick a team and positions that players are picked to play. We should just name a squad that squad is a team of defenders and flooders.


I hate flooding, i can handle losing, but not when we continue to flood and lose.

Oh well... There's probably something i'm missing. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 1376
Location: Melbourne
YEr i agree though i think we flooded a bit in the first half we just had the legs to carry it off and make the Weagles make errors once our guys fell off then we just got pumped ... i dunno what we could have done the speed that the Weagles move the ball not much we can do i am at a loss i just look forward to 2006 and see some big changes and some of our young charges come into the side then i will feel optimistic but at the moment i just know we gonna get pumped more often than not :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:49 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:57 pm
Posts: 4334
Location: Strathmore
Problem is that Carlton's flood is like a sieve.. so many holes its a joke.. our flood is more to zone off your player and fill the gaps rather than man on man the free blokes should zone off in the gaps...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:56 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:33 pm
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Location: The corner of BumF*** and YouGotAPrettyMouth
our flood is a fu*king puddle...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:01 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:53 pm
Posts: 848
Location: Warner
The Shag wrote:
our flood is a fu*king puddle...


Amen to that... I didn't see a lot of the second half, but I couldn't believe we'd gone to such negative tactics when the Weagles were on a ten goal bender.... at the end of the day, 1.2 from a half of football is nothing short of abysmal....

I always remember a 16 point game* against Fitzroy as being the low point of my supporting the Blues - but turning a good start into an 83 point hiding has to be close to that.....


*OK - I was young, and I may have 1) got the end score wrong, 2) got the team wrong.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1702
Location: Smorgyland Village North Carlton
Come on guys, what else could you do?
With a flood Noah would've been proud of, they still got ten goals.
Imagine if we let them have more space in the forward line.
You can't coach that kind of fade out.
It comes down to confidence and lack of numbers.
We had more passengers than Connex after half time.
Sorry the guys had a go, and got rooted in the second half by a far superior side in the West. We won't be the last to be towelled up over there this year.
Not Pagan's fault today and for the Pago knockers would love to hear suggestions of who you want to coach us then.
It's not as easy as arse Pagan and Campo or they'd be gone already.
Think our million dollar baby Kouta played well today? -not me mate.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:42 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I @#$%&! hate when we flood.

Never been able to do it, not even to "save" leads.

@#$%&! it, better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

For mine, it's a far too negative way of playing. You're already playing the way the opposition wants you to, which with our lack of talent puts us way behind the 8-ball.

Go all out I say. Let the boys play for fun, and the "little" victories in each qtr, and match. they will soon add up in a match and make a win.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:01 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm
Posts: 2123
Not a big fan of flooding I must say. The problem you have is that you flood and then when you get the ball there's nothing to kick to upfield. Happens to us all the time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:10 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4334
Location: Strathmore
Blues2005 wrote:
Not a big fan of flooding I must say. The problem you have is that you flood and then when you get the ball there's nothing to kick to upfield. Happens to us all the time.


Thats why most of the midfield is stuffed after half time and cannot run out a game as they run up and down the ground.. its very a taxing style of game...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:22 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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We needed a Tsunami today !!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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I don't see how flooding teaches the younger kids anything.

You want them to grow up playing good accountable foreward thinking football.

How will they learn that if their instructions are "just stand somewhere in the back half and try to stop the ball getting past you"?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:50 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4678
Location: Melbourne
Yes indeed, just another reason as to why i'm starting to question DP's tatics! I mean, we can't even flood properly!

Kouta = #1clearance player in the leauge...................so let's start him in the back half!
Bryan killed them in the ruck in the 1st qtr..................so let's move him up forward in the 2nd?????????????
We're up by 10 points, let's flood.....................the only thing that got flooded was us, by West Coast Goals.

For a team that floods, how do you explain Michael Braun recieving 29 UNCONTESTED POSSESIONS???????????????????????????????????????

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am
Posts: 35135
The worst thing about flooding is that every team does it to some degree and it's just crappy to watch.
We do it poorly and get smashed, teams like the Roos do it well and win, but no matter which way you cut it flooding is bad to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Flood ?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:02 am
Posts: 1724
Tractor Boy wrote:
Please shed some light on this topic for me. We are getting pumped and we continue to flood. What benefits are gained by flooding ,just as we did today in the second half.

Is this Pagans way of conceiding ? Having played a little bit of football myself in the SFL (Southern Football League ) and having played in successful and dreadful teams, the one thing that i remember we used to do when a side got 3 goals on end was man up. Go man on man. Why doesn't Pagan like the man on man theory ?

With flooding there are no options up field. You might get the ball but where do you go with it ? More often sideways, and the more sideways you go the greater the likelihood of getting nowhere, let alone more room for errors. Then again when you do attempt to go forward, its a game of ping pong, the ball comes straight back and in many cases bypasses the player who attempted to move it forward, and we are caught out again.

When i used to coach juniors ( little tackers ) the one thing that i always used to stress was that you need to continue to run into the right spaces, continue to back yourself when you see an opening and never drop your head.. It might not always come to when you go into the right spaces, but by doing this you are at the very least creating room for others, and if you are playing in a good team your team mates will automatically know where to send the ball. It becomes instinctive.

Backing yourself, well it gives you the player some room for errors, errors which as a coach you wouldn't penalise your player for. This builds self confidence.

Never dropping your head, one always plays for pride and if you don't have pride in the jumper ,at the very least you need to have pride in yourself.

Can someone tell me how flooding is helping our development as a football side ?
Can someone tell me how flooding is helping a players self confidence ?
Can someone please tell me how Flooding is an instinctive part of our football code ?

Can someone please, please, pretty please, shed some light on why even if we are going to get pumped week in week out why we don't try to play Football the way it used to be played the way it should be played, otherwise why pick a team and positions that players are picked to play. We should just name a squad that squad is a team of defenders and flooders.


I hate flooding, i can handle losing, but not when we continue to flood and lose.

Oh well... There's probably something i'm missing. :wink:


Well said and well asked! Totally agree. Also great to see a supporter using his playing experience to explain his thoughts I love it!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:44 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:23 am
Posts: 48684
Location: Canberra
ryan2000 wrote:
Yes indeed, just another reason as to why i'm starting to question DP's tatics! I mean, we can't even flood properly!

Kouta = #1clearance player in the leauge...................so let's start him in the back half!


For a team that floods, how do you explain Michael Braun recieving 29 UNCONTESTED POSSESIONS???????????????????????????????????????


1. Kouta in defence: Not saying I agree with the move but the Eagles have an abundance of talls in their forward 6, so at least Kouta has the height to match.

2. Braun's uncontested possessions: Judd, Kerr, Fletcher, Embley, Cousins ... these guys ensure a guy like Braun can get under the radar. Again not defending the results.



Must admit it makes sense to my simple footy mind to play man on man.

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 Post subject: Flooding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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The weagles love it when you flood.Leaves all those blokes loose in the back half to do as they please.It was a gift to Worsfold.What the Weagles dont like is when you go man on man.Is Pagan going dippy ! Fancy letting Chad Fletcher run around ALL day without a tag.Should have tagged the whole 18.Now that they would hate.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:20 pm 
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Richmond Supporter

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:08 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Melbourne
Hey Tractor boy.
Pretty disappointing watching your team flood, if they are still getting belted. You are right, there is no developing of players if they are basically being encouraged to form scrums. You would prefer to see your players learn by being beaten one on one rather than having no direct objective other than crowding the oppositions space.
DP should bite the bullet & tell the players to back themselves. This way you will see which players are going to be there when the team is sucessful, rather than your honest battlers who as much as they try, ain't going to be there when it is time to play finals.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:29 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:11 pm
Posts: 1959
Location: Elwood
Tractor Tiger wrote:
Hey Tractor boy.
Pretty disappointing watching your team flood, if they are still getting belted. You are right, there is no developing of players if they are basically being encouraged to form scrums. You would prefer to see your players learn by being beaten one on one rather than having no direct objective other than crowding the oppositions space.
DP should bite the bullet & tell the players to back themselves. This way you will see which players are going to be there when the team is sucessful, rather than your honest battlers who as much as they try, ain't going to be there when it is time to play finals.


Welcome aboad mate !! Behave in here . my name is held with high regard. You working i'll ring you at work. Good win your mob !

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am
Posts: 4827
Fair enough post from tractor boy...I agree and wouldnt mind some answers from the coaching staff on some of those questions....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Smorgyland Village North Carlton
I don’t like it as a specatacle either, but it aint that simple.
Tag them all ? problem is we don’t have a tagger. Walker took Judd and then there’s Cousins, Embley, Braun, Fletcher.
Find Broadie Holland for him or young Selwood from Brissie or another three Walkers.
Pagan is doing the long term thing teaching a creative player like Walker the necessary skill of accountability. Shame no one bothered to teach Campo a few years ago.
When Walker first came to the club he was far to loose on him man. Eventually he will be able to create and when the call comes out, be able to do the team thing and shut down.
We have a great history of playing shoot out footy because we had the guns to fire.
Now out comes a flag with BOOM on it.
At what point do most of you consider we started flooding?
What is when the Eagles were tearing us a new arsehole in clearances in the third term or before that?
You try to stay in a game and then fight hard when the run goes your way.
Pagan is working to save what remains of our hack players confidence, you think he needs to be beaten each week by 100 points to know Prendagast won’t win a Brownlow.
If we had the players fine, but with guys like our bottom ten Saturday he’s putting on more band-aids that Geldof.

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