BB2005 Youre wrong!!!
BM for someone who tried setting up a salary list with the thread called "An intellectual exercise" where you managed to scrape us just under the 6.3 million cap but left out 10 players... anything you say now is pretty rich,

(Fancy having TEN players on the dole and living in the ministry of Housing flats on Rathdown street and then trying to look intelligent.... )

Re the Campo thing... hes a required player because he has been offered a contract by Denis that is NOT satisfactory.. so i wouldnt call him a required player till he signs whats been put in front of him.

someone said Campo has had a terrific 2003/2004 ???

Youre kidding me right???
He has been just an average player since 2001. Nothing more...


chicken????`those figures youre bandying around????.. wishful thinking....

Youre dreamin`..

Blue Mark chicken and Surrey strange bedfellows indeed...

You know youre tripping when surrey is on your side...

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You know youre tripping when slurrey is in your side...

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1. I dont think the 10 players taking up 70% of cap scenario is plausible given that there are at least 5-10 other players that you could list there within that time frame. I'm not going to go look up a list though, I think I've done too much research along those lines today already
2. I think collo asked for the pay cuts because without sufficient players retiring/being moved on in time, contracts were continually being pushed back (deferred payments as opposed to pay cuts) - therefore it was impossible to get under the cap for the 03 season without real pay cuts.
3. Elliot defenders - It depends very much what you are defending. I would count myself as one of his strongest 'defenders' but its not blind defence. He made some really bad errors in judgement with respect to salary cap (what I speculated to happen in my previous posts) but I feel that he did so in what he thought were the best interests of the club at the time (even though history has proven him wrong with the cap). I even criticise elliot for his last gasp appointment Pagan. Where I do and will continue to defend him though is against the rants seem to ignore the 20 years of service that he gave to the club and the positive things that he brought to the club during that time.
4. Campo being signed up at an average 400-450k/year in his last contract. Given his form at the time of contract signing and his standing within the comp I think that was a very reasonable amount (though I still think it was 3 years and not 4). Since that time however campo has not performed to the levels prior to his contract signing - I think most people will agree with that. The decrease in performance is due to a combination of several factors including team structure/game plan, team performance and the lack of midfield options. What we probably disagree on is that I dont think campo is trying 'less hard' now than previously as some posters seem to suggest. However that is a minor point of contention. The main point of contention though is the continual bandying of excessive salary figures to build a case against campo (the 500k which became 550, and then 600 and now 650k since the start of the year). Particularly the way most arguements are presented which imply that campo has been on those amounts for the entire period in question (I think I have demonstrated that there is no way he could have been on that amount) and that campo expects 650k again next season.

In conclusion with campo - I would have a lot less of a problem reading criticism IF figures of 650k being bandied about actually acknowledge that the number is speculation AND that campo's contract was previously heavily backloaded which has contributed heavily to this amount.

Btw, CC A hypothetical Q
Assume your very good funds manager and in 2000 u sign a 4 yeear contract worth 200k/year but backloaded.
2001 - 100k
2002 - 125k
2003 - 225k
2004 - 350k
The reasons for backloading are stated that they have over budgeted for salaries and are awaiting retirements and the techbubble is supposed to bring in more business in subsequent years. You agree and sign on for 4 years. At the end of 2002, the techbubble has imploded and your performance has dropped somewhat. The new company director comes in a states that they need to get your salary down to 200k/annum for the next 2 years inorder to avoid insolvency or taken over.
There are 2 options. You can either
1. Agree to receive to receive a paycut so to enable the company to fit under the salary 'cap' ie 200k/annum for the remaining 2 years and in effect give up 175k (22% of your combined 4 year salary).
2. In return for accepting a the reduced salary in years 3 and 4, the company offers to extend your contract another year at 200k (+monies owing for years 3 and 4 ie 375k total).

Which option would u really choose? - I suspect most people would say option 2 but no doubt some will claim they would be happy with option 1

Synbad - typical response
1. Which figures have I 'bandied about'? I've clearly stated that where some numbers are unknown and are thus speculated. That is hardly taking a number and bandying it about as you put it. Now compare that to the 650k that you seem to be prostituting Also, if you disagree state specifics rather than the usual rant.
2. How about you come up with figures for the 2000 season then (or 2001 if u prefer) - I'm sure someone can dig up the 2000 playing list from somewhere. Also whilst you come up with the payment figures perhaps you could also state which contracts were backloaded and to what extent

To date, you havent even come close to addressing the issues raised - at the very least CC makes an attempt to discuss things in reasonable manner. Is that really so hard for you to do?

Pedantics to what is not important.... youre talking figures and im talking Campo is an average player getting paid enough to feed the continent of Africa for a month...
Im also saying that Campo is not only an average player but he does very little to lift the club in his capacity as a leader.

PS if i gave you figures chicken... how can you prove im wrong???

So again .. its another ridiculous request..!!!

Some people never cease to amaze ...

And verbs???... if im like reading Mein Kempf... id like to let you know that the prozac youre taking is working... im hearing much less of your 'nothingness'....

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Slightly off topic Chicken,but i cannot let your little gem about Elliots positives during 20 years..

What might they be?..

Do they out weigh the complete disaster of the Legends stand and the diabolical team/recruiting structure that now is such a mill-stone around our necks?

Methinks not![code][/code]

I'd give up mr. chicken.

Synbad will stick by his ramblings till the very end.

I suspect that even if he backs himself into a corner and/or knows that he is wrong on a point he will only try and bludgeon his way out.

Synbad mate, I don't know you and I have nothing against you but your posts are shite.

Quite the contrary...

Synbad, I don't know you, have never met you, but the only reason I started posting on this site and others was because I found myself agreeing with virtually everything you've said! You - and a small handful of people - have a better grasp on the club' situation and future, then most of these other twats. To you twats, I'm quite surprised you have enough inteliigence to turn on your computers, let alone construe an arguement.

You ridicule someone rightly critical of a self-imposed star, yet I continually notice subtle stabs at Pagan and the administration, and at other times not so subtle. When speaking so highly of Camporeale, why not speak with relativity by comparing him to the other midfielders in his income bracket. Then try and piece your arguement. Name a very highly paid athlete that's exempt from criticism when not performing to expectations?

Sinbad, keep the posts coming. I read with interest!

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Given that I'm one of the main protagonists of this thread I presume you are referring to me. I never realised that disagreeing with certain posters would automatically mean that I cant grasp certain issues and label me as an unintelligent 'flower'

Last I checked I havent ridiculed synbad - in fact, synbad is more guilty of ridiculing other posters than any other poster on this board.

Nor have I stated that camporeale should be immune from criticism. What I have queried on numerous occasssions is the validity of some of the claims being bandied about (salary/contract amount and terms, backloading etc) and the obvious bias that exists. You ask me to name a athelete that is exempt from criticism? You only need to go so far as to have a look at nick stevens who has been struggling for most of this season and is similarly highly paid. Yet somehow 'golden boy' nick stevens seems to escape the scrutiny that campo has received. I'm not saying players cant be criticised - I'm calling for more balance in the debate and a greater emphasis on discussion as opposed to rants. There is a distinct difference there.

As for potshots at Pagan - you yourself have said that highly paid persons should be subject to scrutiny if they are not performing to expectations. Last I checked Pagan was being paid more than campo. I only expect 2 things from the coaching staff - that the players consistently play to their potential (or close to) and that the team displays good spirit/endeavour. Last I checked, only a handful of players out of a list of 30+ players (excluding first year draftees) could be said to be playing near potential or could be said to be having good seasons. If its one or two players that dont perform, they are placed under scrutiny. When the majority of your list (80+%) are underperforming consistently then surely the coaching staff have something to answer for. In terms of spirit/endeavour - how many games this year are there in which you can say that the team has displayed the spirit/endeavour of an AFL team? Not too many I'm thinking.

I'm not criticising Pagan because we are not winning - I'm criticising Pagan because he doesnt seem to be able to achieve the 2 things that I require from the coach.

Similarly, I view the role of the administration as that of providing of positive environment for the football club, its supporters and sponsors. The only aspect I am critical of the collin's regime is the continual negative spin that is provided to the media and the public. Labelling the majority of players as failures (C-Z grade), continually harping on about draft penalties and emphasising a dire financial situation ($10million loss last year when it was purely an accounting write off on an assett - not a cash flow issue) is not the way for the club to build a positive environment for which the team can move forward. It might have been appropriate 2 years ago when the administration came into power but if all we can do is live in the past then there is no way for the club to move forward.

Now perhaps you could state exactly which parts of my post that you actually disagree with and state reasons for it - or perhaps you will continue to blindly worship the 'great' synbad like a lapdog? Though with the forum name 'wasthesonofapreacherman'maybe I shouldnt expect anything more than blind faith in a false god

Perfectly said! Now where's the On button on this contraption?

So anyone who thinks Campo is an overated , overpaid , dummy spitting, ill disciplined sorry excuse for a leader is a Synbad lapdog are they chicken????

thats pretty rich coming from a chicken....

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Chicko, of course option 2...

But I'd work my butt off so that the company wouldn't go insolvent because if it did, I'd have no money and I'd be an unsecured creditor.

Therein lies the difference. Has Campo worked harder? I don't think so, based on his results.

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- Igor Stravinsky

What star players have we missed out on in the last 4 years because of these contracts and how were we going to get them?

You'd have to say Barry Hall.

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Barry Hall chose Sydney over us. It was reported in the paper that he wanted to get out of Melbourne anyway we picked up Mckernan that year on a big contract so I doubt money was the problem with Hall.

Anyone else??????? Come on these contracts are killing the club??????

Everybody knows you can only shake the tree when you have money to shake the tree.
Weve been hamstrung!!!!!!!.....guess why???
Anyway.. we will get someone this time.

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Not convinced we will get someone. Most of the bignames have re-signed and the few who havn't would need more than money as a lure to jump ship to us I suspect on this seasons showing.

Interestingly its not all about convincing you whether we will or we wont...
Its about convincing a player.. and im very sure we will.. so its ok.

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Pretty sure I realise that Synbad, tis just an opinion thats all. Didn't Noble go Number 1 in last years PSD. If thats all thats on offer I'd take another kid ala Betts last year.