I remember when Pagan first came to Carlton. Among the many tumultuous events at that time, there was the (seemingly) annual speculation over whether Craig Bradley would sign on for another year, or hop on his bike and hang up the boots. It was clear Pagan wanted him to go.

However, Pagan went on record at the time as saying he didn't want to be the one to make the call because he had only been at the club for five minutes, and telling a club legend to piss off would be like killing off Bambi. He clearly didn't want to upset the traditionalists by being seen to be giving a club legend the shoddy treatment.

Fast forward 2.5 years and he has another club legend, also the captain of the club, and that legend's mate, a former AA onballer, our only two playing links to our last premiership, neither of whom seems to want to play for him any more or at the very least submit to his authority.

I would bet that he wouldn't mind giving Kouta the sack as captain and giving the job to Nick Stevens. My feeling is that he should do just that, starting with this week's game against Freo. Let Kouta go back to being a veteran with flashes of brilliance, and let someone else have a go at displaying some leadership (and please God, not Campo) and try to inspire some newfound commitment from the boys.

But I get the feeling that, once more, Pagan is a bit unsure if he wants to kill off Bambi - a guy who has been - talent-wise - the greatest Carlton player of the past 20 years and risk the ire of the Carlton faithful, and the remnants of the Elliot years like Sticks and Diesel.

Does he seriously think Kouta will turn it around? And I don't mean his form I mean the fire in his belly that has gone.

I will always love Kouta for the player that he was, but I feel nothing for the captain he has become.

Come on Denis. Time to put Bambi out of his misery. Don't prolong the misery - change is needed now.

Oh shit, here we go!

Look, if Kouta has lost the Fire in his belly it is from a result of Pagan's coaching!

Three weeks ago, Kouta led the AFL in clearances and was 2nd in the Centre Clearances. So what would you do with a player like that? Why not stick him down back? What a crock!

Soon..............not yet................but soon, because i can hear it coming.......................people will realise that Pagan is a major part of the problem at Carlton.

I'm starting to want Kouta to retire because i can't stand to watch him put up with such utter uttter bullshit week in week out! He deserves better!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

I dont think Denis is scared to make the big call but it is a bit inappropriate to "sack" the captain now.

Kouta will retire at the end of the year and save Pagan the hassle.

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

You probably think that its Denis fault that Kouta wouldnt take a shithouse tackle from Goddard????
We need changes on the field... no matter what your father (who loves Elliott, Manton and Beaumont tells you)

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The problem is that nobody really "deserves" the captaincy - we could give it to Nick Stevens but does he truly warrant it at this point in time? Stevens is temporarily struggling with his game as it is, I don't think he should have nor does he really deserve the captaincy.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Wont happen until the end of the year but you are right Ponkstar... I have a feeling that DP would have liked to have had a few more changes at the end of last year but was told that some senior players where untouchable last year IE Club Legends of the past / Still in contract.

But end of this year with the perfromance we have had i think that he will get his way and last years more difficult and problematic choices will be made this year especially with the situation the Blues have gotten themselves into.

I too hope Stevo takes on the Captaincy next year i think he will lift with the responsibility and if as we suspect Campo / Whits are no longer at the club those negative influences will go as well.. i am sure Stevo will be a good leader and be great for some of the kids as well. But will have to be year end...But for Stevo to be Captain Whits and Campo can no longer be at the club if they where there would be even more internal on field problems... dont think both Vice Captains would like to see Stevo leap frog them.

In this senario Kouta will be able to play off his last year without the burden of having to lead .... well try and lead and just play his own game maybe will also allow him to go out on a good note

Give it to Walker

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Even if Kouta retires(which he should do ),doesn't his salary for 2006 still have to be included in the salary cap? It won't put us over the cap given the number of kids we'll have, as we won't land a big name in the P.S.D. just a kid.
That's if the Hawks don't claim the spoon, which is a possibility given Mitchell and Browne are out for at least 3 weeks.

Mal Michael....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Not sure Juzz

Anyone ?? will Koutas salary count towards 2006 cap if he retires ??

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Hawks get the spoon we certainly wont get Murphy and more than likely he will end up North.

But Kouta / Campo / Whitnall are the reminants of the old era. This era went in decline 5-6 years ago ... We had NERO (Elliot) watching the crumbling Empire play his fiddle as the Blues sunk to there worst depth in history ... This slide has happened well before DP arrived and may have been halted if we hadnt had the book thrown at us from AFL which has really derailed any short term rebuild... But the last Reminants of this era are the 3 players above when they go we will hopefully see a new dawn emerge for the betterment of this club i think in the long term. Never good to see your Past Champions (Old Guard) see there career end in the way those 3 look to be seeing it out but i think once well prob 2 of them go it may take a lot of the negative enrgy out of the side and hopefully some of our kids and 2nd teer players can be freed up and assume more responsibility.
Simpson showed us in that given more responsibility he has added something but i think with the chaging of the guard we may see a few other players stand up..... Dosnt mean that some will be axed at the end of the year.. But some will certainly step up i think as well.

Do the names Fraser Brown and Stephen O`Reilly mean anything to you?
There is no way Kouta will be retiring... but if he doesnt have anything to offer the club he should captain the Bullants next year.
Offering the club means to run that little harder.. look abit more interested.. caree about the kids...
Not expecting Kouta to play like a champ... but i dont want to see him play like a chump either.

Its time for a new chapter of Carlton champions to emerge.
this group is shot!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

aah yep fraser brown bags brown

anyways

you really think kouta would elect to play and captain the bullants ??

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

He wont Captain the Bullants i dont think he will maybe play as a player unburdened with the responsibility of the Captaincy and play out his last year without any pressures.

He reminds me of Primus a bit from what i know of with the internal Port drama of this Year but that is another subject

Camporeale should for the rest of the year and Russell and Simpson should take his spot.Just as a means of developing our youngsters for the future.

Pass me the 12 guage shot gun.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

As far as the captaincy goes it needs to be someone who has been part of a winning culture. Apart from Kouta and Campo and to a lesser extent Lappin and Whitnall, most of our blokes have been part of losing sides far more than they have been part of winning sides.

In fact, from Livo and T-Bird's era on, our guys have most likely suffered more 10 goal+ thumpings than they have had chances to sing the song. I can't see how we can build a winning culture around guys who have never been a part of one.

Sad as it is, I really believe Nick is the only option, unless they do a major break from tradition and try to recruit a gun player with a fistful of dollars AND the captaincy as double carrots (not necessarily Mal Michael, though).

Well Kouta's down.................So is Stevens.......................So is Campo......................So is Whitnall.........................Fev's had a poor year............................Jesus, i see a bit of a pattern here!

So it's either one of two things?

One: They are all out of form and we should trade, delist, retire them because none of them are giving us anything!

or

Two: All talented players who have proven their worth on more occasions than i can remember that are being wasted by a coach!

One player, i could accept that. Maybe Two. I'd be worried with three but when all of our Star Players are playing below expectations then something is seriously wrong and there are too many players listed above to just put it down to poor form.

Put Fev in West Coast - he would have kicked 100 goals already!

Put Stevens at Collingwood - they'd be in the 8 by now!

Put Kouta at Freo and they'd have a top 4 spot!

Put Whitnall at the Bulldogs and they'd be playing Finals football for the first time in 4 years!

But yes...............of course, it's all their fault!

Your right! Pagan - get rid of em all, the're all shit and none of them can seem to grasp your amazingly effective taticts and inspirational vision! If they can't accept that your new age game plan that has prooved it's worth on time and time again then we gotta get rid of them!

While your at it..........Ship out Davies. Forget the fact that he's tearing it up in the VFL under a different coach, because that's beside the point.

Ditto Diggby Morrell. He's kicked 29 goals this season with the Bullants - but he's done it all the wrong way!

Phew - Boy am i glad we're tanking it and the players are just putting on a show so we can score some PP's and Kosi & Luke Power in the trade season because otherwise,..........................i'd be pretty worried!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Who will possibly come out of contract and could walk straight into Carlton's captaincy? The player wouldn't accept it unless it was a Tredrea or Jonathan Brown type player who'd they respect.Couldn't see it happening anyway, with the potential of even more bruised egos if it's possible.

While I respect his ability just what has Nick Stevens done to deserve the captaincy

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill