OK, This Is What I Would Do. (A Bombshell)

Kaptain Kouta · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm **Posts:** 63509

The Tyrant wrote:

Cazzesman wrote:

PS. Anyone see Crowley (kicked 4 goals), Mundy (rising star nominee this year), Murphy and Thornton play for Freo on Sunday. Apparently they went okay. Anyone know who recruited those 4 to Freo???

Was it Gerard Neesham? I bet it was Neesham

Damian Drum?

79Vintage · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am **Posts:** 1971

To use an analogy, we want to make it across the seas to a promise land but the motor of our boat is broke, so we've got our sails up but the breeze is only light. The only things we can do from here on in is make gradual changes over the next 3-5 years to provide a stable environment for the young players who come into the club. There will be changes off the field and on the field this year but they will be managed over time, not drastic like a couple of years ago. Basically our on field leaders are shite, in two years the older ones will be gone and we'll have new one's developing

As far as recruiting goes, we need to recruit to play a brand of football that fits into modern times. Gerard Healy said tonight after an All Australian selection meeting that apart from Full back, ruck and full forward what other players play in a position anymore. It's a pretty odd statement, but it's apt to all the successful sides who have a strong possession component to their game, especially West Coast. Russell, Hartlett and Raso are all versatile types, I hope our recruiters follow the pattern of recruiting versatile types. Not that I'd be heard on here.

Kaptain Kouta · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm **Posts:** 63509

To go with your analoy, we also need a captain who can read the winds, know the perils, and get the maximum out of his crew.

At the moment, our crew are seasick, and to be perfectly honest, Horatio Pagan is wringing every ounce of ability out of the team. But the better ones don't have their hearts in it, and as a consequence, the work is being left for too few.

79Vintage · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am **Posts:** 1971

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

To go with your analoy, we also need a captain who can read the winds, know the perils, and get the maximum out of his crew.

At the moment, our crew are seasick, and to be perfectly honest, Horatio Pagan is wringing every ounce of ability out of the team. But the better ones don't have their hearts in it, and as a consequence, the work is being left for too few.

Don't let me argue on the merits of getting a future captain to the club or BlueMark's thread will be hijacked with hysterics. :roll:

You're 100% right Kouta, getting a captain to the club is the most important thing, great teams revolve around a great leaders, always have, always will.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:20 pm

now 79 no one argued with the idea of getting a future captain but with the idea that there is only a single future captain this generation!

As for you BM, task task - think I'd rather go with Synbad's tanking than your baby with the bathwater idea.

Kaptain Kouta · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm **Posts:** 63509

79Vintage wrote:

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

To go with your analoy, we also need a captain who can read the winds, know the perils, and get the maximum out of his crew.

At the moment, our crew are seasick, and to be perfectly honest, Horatio Pagan is wringing every ounce of ability out of the team. But the better ones don't have their hearts in it, and as a consequence, the work is being left for too few.

Don't let me argue on the merits of getting a future captain to the club or BlueMark's thread will be hijacked with hysterics. :roll:

You're 100% right Kouta, getting a captain to the club is the most important thing, great teams revolve around a great leaders, always have, always will.

Yes, we need a good on-field leader, but I was actually referring to Denis.

7dominator · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:27 pm

Great response Cazzes.

Interesting that still no views are offered re Kernahan.To my mind his status as a Carlton icon should not protect him from criticism.

Fact is that during his role as Chairman of Selectors and Director of Football we have been through the worst period in our history but i am yet to see his position questioned...

jenx · **Joined:** Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:50 pm **Posts:** 809

Cazzesman wrote:

PS. Anyone see Crowley (kicked 4 goals), Mundy (rising star nominee this year), Murphy and Thornton play for Freo on Sunday. Apparently they went okay. Anyone know who recruited those 4 to Freo???

Was he the same bloke who recruited M Pavlich?

Mickstar · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 7467

Watched Pattison and Meyer play on sunday down at frankston.My man Ulms outpointed Pattison and my other man Byron Murphy had a stint on Meyer and ran rings around him.I will agree Pattison could make a player.But in plain english,i reckon Russell shits all over Meyer.

Dennis is gunna coach us for the next 3 years so thats it.But he,along with Sheedy and Malthouse have had there best days.But there is no denying they have been great coaches and i respect them enormously.

Our future coach ? Thats easy.We have a once in a lifetime chance to repeat history.We can do what George Harris did.
He looked at the power side of the day.Melbourne.
He looked at there coach....Norm Smith.
And he looked at Smith's star pupil in Ron Barassi.

Fast forward to today and it's Brisbane.Mathews and Michael Voss.
Michael Voss is the modern day Barassi and he is the man to lead us out of the mire.Simply the best,and we only want the very best.All the other candidates are second rate compared to Voss.Voss baracked for the Blues as a boy and if you read his article on the CFC in the sunday Age it showed his love and reverance for this mighty club.

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

Brave post...scorched earth policy with the football dept and the player list gets the soylent green theory..we make the oldies into little green bickies called money and draft picks..lots of draft picks.

re: recruiting.....I am as criticial as they get when it comes to recruiting and Russell was a debatable pick but overall I think Hughes did a fair job and showed some imagination with Raso and Micks man Bryan....and from what I have seen of Russell i think he can make it....I would have picked Willits or Maric but thats my opinion .
Very harsh to sack Hughes after one draft considering the previous incumbents long reign and results....my views on recruiting are simple..we get bigger quicker and much stronger players and do what Brisbane have done..terrify and intimidate every other team...balance that with some silky skilled types who can create and finish....no more schoolboy recruiting unless its A+ talent...

Coaching staff.....Libba....fair enough hasnt done much for our tackling or on ball dept...sack..
Barry Mitchell.....Bullants are going ok and I guess I measure his worth more in what talent he is developing and turning into senior players.....
if there is someone better I would consider it..

Pagan/Elshaugh.....hasnt been a great year but when you call for the Kings head you need a replacement..I dont see any obvious ones...
The old retreds like Ayres, Frawley etc are not up to it sop that means a new untried one like Odonnell or maybe even Voss....I think Voss is a smart operator and wont go anywhere near a basket case club..bit like Gary lyon.....Voss will wait as an assistant to matthews until he gets a real good opportunity with a strong club...bit like worsfold....you may get Voss as an assistant but he will be straight back to Brisbane when Matthews leaves.....
I wouldnt be sacking Pagan as I think he needs another year to be judged and to get some further games into the young troops.....if you sack Pagan
you have to pay him out and that means a el cheapo coach like Odonnell..

MC/Sticks...fair enough to question what they have been doing and what they offer for the future.....

My view is one more year as it is and then make a move ....Libba and a player cull is fair enough but I would hold off the rest for another year.
Pagan deserves another year......

79Vintage · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am **Posts:** 1971

dannyboy wrote:

now 79 no one argued with the idea of getting a future captain but with the idea that there is only a single future captain this generation!

Don't ever remember writing that. There will be prospective captains in the future, don't know if we'll be in the position to draft one of this calibre though. I'll take the loss. :lol:

Wolfe · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:00 pm

i think Sticks would like to do more but i think that there have been some restriction in the football department which it seems Collo will finally unlock at the end of tis season with a restructure Judging by his statements and also with our current plight. I think Sticks wants to do more but has to be allowed to otherwise we prob have a person not being fully utilised at the club.

camel · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:18 pm

Crikey this is a bit radical.

Frankly if we got rid of our entire coaching staff and every player ober 25 I can't see how we'd be able to attract any players to our club. There wouldn't be much to bring them here.

I accept the criticism of Pagan, but do agree he deserves another year, and more than likely the full term of his new contract. I would love to see an injection of new blood into the assistants role though. Voss would be my #1 target. Buckley #2 if and when he becomes available.

I think Kouta deserves the right to some respect too. He may not be a marvellous captain, but for much of this year he has been a marvel on the field. Stevens should stay, Fevola too. Even Campo and Lance still have plenty to offer IMO, but if the deals are right then I'd have Lance in line first, followed by Campo, Stevens and Fev. But in some wyas I'd like to keep Campo, I ahve no problem with the way the blow torch is applied to him he has let us down, be he with Kouta are our only remaining Premiership players and I don't think any decision to release them should be taken lightly.

Man, I tell you what, I can't bloody wait for us to be roaring up that ladder again, all this negativity is shitting me! :lol:

Kaptain Kouta · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm **Posts:** 63509

camelboy wrote:

Man, I tell you what, I can't bloody wait for us to be roaring up that ladder again, all this negativity is shitting me! :lol:

Love your thinking C-Boy! I'm right with you there.

Synbad · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:55 pm

BM hmmmmmmmmmmm... the coaching staff and the players eh???

Swap cards???? :lol:

Ok.. whatabout the board . They just gave Denis a new 3 year contract worth mega bucks!!Surely they must go too???
Kenny hunter... Sticks Kernahan.. Swan MacKay... Ian Collins... Marcus Rose.. Smorgo... all that were involved in signing up a coach for another three years on near 2 million should resign on your newest intellectual analysis.. Then we need a new coach and football department .. (i agree with a few of the players been shown the door.. No secret there...

But after we pay all these people millions of dollars to bvuy out their contracts.. find a new board.. (Cos they cost us the millions of dollars by backing in Denis)..... find new coaches who may fail.. and if they do fail do we do it all again in three years??????????????????????????????

Now we can really out on our red white and black jumpers cos were StKilda!!!!!! :lol:

Id hate to see you not think too much about something and just jump straight into it.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:01 pm

'The team who loses this match has the opportunity to win Grand Finals within 7-10 years, the winner of this match will not be in contention in the next generation. Such is the talent, quality and leadership of Marc Murphy.'

Think I meant this one 79.

79Vintage · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am **Posts:** 1971

Yes and I still stand by it. Finding a captain the calibre of our past through the national draft is a matter of being in the right draft in the right year. If Murphy stays in Melbourne, this is our year.

ryan2000 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:10 am

Cazzesman wrote:

ryan2000 wrote:

I think we should throw out our recruiting department though!

I'm gonna cop crap for this, but that's ok! It's my opinion - you don't have to aggree with me.
I'm not happy with Russell as our choice and was somewhat confused when we picked him up on draft day! Sure, i've seen his skills AND watched him on a few occasions last year - but as pick 9 i think there were at least 6 players that i can think of that should have gone before him.

Chris Egan (had a killer year last year for Murray and was continually standing in Deledio's Shadow)

Pattison (was my choice as he will be a future leader and Ruck king of the AFL, not to mention the fact that he is a damn fine goalkicker and decent forward!)

McQualter (Don't let the mostouche fool you - will be a great hard-at-it midfielder!)

Monfires (Couldn't stop thinking of Brett Ratten whenever i watched this kid!!!!!!!!!)

Danny Myer (was dumbfounded when Bulldogs used pick 6 on a project player when they could have snaped up this kid????? Was even more dumbfounded when we let him go to!)

I was happy with our Hartlett choice and despite the fact that i didn't even know his name last year - i was also happy with Raso being picked up (but was aprehensive to begin with!)

Our first round draft picks from the past 10 years have been shit! SHIT! there is no other way to put it (Walker aside that is!)
If we stuff up picks 1 & 3 (2 & 4) this year then we really have something to worry about and to be honest, i just don't trust them enough to get it right!

So let me get this right in my own mind .......

You want to get rid of the CFC recruiting manager after 1 year in the seat because you think he got it wrong picking Russell.

You were confused on draft day when he picked Russell because you saw him play in 3 (?) games last year. Did Russell play badly in your view in the those 3 games??? How was the rest of Russells year in SA ????

Did you watch Buddy Franklin last year?? Would you have drafted him top 5 on those 3 games. Did you watch Clarke this year??? Would you draft him top 10 on those 3 games. Did you watch Kennedy this year?? Would you draft him top 15 on those 3 games?? Just wondering if 3 games is really enough of a sample???

Getting back to last years draft.........You say you are happy with the choice of Harlett, who has been injured most of the year and hasn't had the chance to show anything as yet. You are happy with Raso who is running around for Hailebury and was an educated late pick at best that may or may not work. Did you see him play for the Stingrays last year or for Hailebury????

I presume you are happy with the choice of Bryant so far????

Backwell? I can only presume you are happy with him because you didn't mention him earlier.

You like the look of Egan. Yes he goes okay but if he continues to shirk contests when the heat is on how long do you think he will last at AFL level. Would it interest you to know that Collingwood where going to pick Russell at pick 10 if we had passed on him. The Pies actually thought Russell would make it through to pick 10 so they gave up there original pick 7 in another deal and missed out on their man. Egan was their 2nd choice. Lets see if he has the desire and 100% commitment to play another 3 years let alone 10 years. There's alot more to playing AFL then getting a kick. Just ask Angwin.

Pattison is decent tall and I rated him but he is up and down with his form in the VFL and his overall lack of mobility still might be in question at AFL level.

McQualter. Now you know I'm a fan but he was not a top 10 pick even in my eyes. CFC needed to inject an agile, very quick ball carrier into the team and Mini is not in that mould. Mini is an extractor at the contest. Yes we did need a Mini as well but we also needed what we got in Russell.

Monfires. Very good talent and was a possible pick 9 but he is 180cm and at that height has some limits where he might play. Russell can basically play HB, Wing, HF and onball in years to come.

Meyer. Good talent but not overly quick. Skills are solid but in years to come there is every chance Russell will leave him for dead.

You say.......IF they stuff up and you DON'T trust them enoguh to get it right. :?:

On one draft you have arrived at these views. My opinion is that it is hardly what you would call a reasonable 'Core Sample' to make that call......even if it is just your opinion.

Oh by the way........50% of the recruiting staff did change over at the start of 2005 so for the new staff, it is actually their first year.

Regards Cazzesman

PS. Anyone see Crowley (kicked 4 goals), Mundy (rising star nominee this year), Murphy and Thornton play for Freo on Sunday. Apparently they went okay. Anyone know who recruited those 4 to Freo???

Get over yourself Cazzee. I respect and value all your posts but sometimes your attitude stinks!

First of all, i have never commented on a player i hadn't or haven't seen. I would go so far as to ask the question or state what i have heard but never commented or used the old bullshit line 'Oh, Mitch Clarke - he's a gun.....let's draft him!'
So no - i didn't comment on Franklin last year because i never watched him play bar the one game when he kicked the winning goal in the carnival and even then i wouldn't comment!

All i'm saying is that Russell was a shock pick for me and he has done nothing this year apart from a few (and i mean few because i can count them on one hand) nice things in the VFL.
And i'll say this..........Hartlett has had a better year in the Bullants Reserves then Russell has had in the Seniors................and he's been injured for 3/4 qtrs of the season!

With Raso - i never saw him play last year! i never said i did! Which is why i said

Quote:

despite the fact that i didn't even know his name last year - i was also happy with Raso being picked up (but was aprehensive to begin with!)

. I didn't even know who he was! Never pretended for a second that i did either so i'm not quite sure what your trying to say there!
However, i have sinces watched him at Hailebury and have been more than immpressed. I can't see him playing AFL for another season or two but still very happy with him! Even he has had a better season than Russell!

But i stand by my dissapointment of pick 9 for Russell.....and couldn't care less what Collingwood are doing! I don't even like Collingwood - why the hell would i care who they pick? Is that supposed to be a reason to pick a player? Well richmond were always gonna pick Meyer - maybe we should have picked him just because of that!

Meyer may not have the speed of most, but this phase of drafting an entire team of pacey midfielders will soon fade and Coaches will eventually realise this once the Buckley's, Voss's, Kouta's, Ricciuto's & others of the like retire!

Pattison having a bad year in the VFL? He's kicked 15+ goals and has been a very intimidating tall which i would think is impressive considering it's his first year! Name one good game Russell has had? Hell, even Barry Mitchell sounds dissapointed with him when he addresses the team!

Blackwell i didn't mention because we were always gonna pick him up anyway under the F/S!

With the recruiters department - i wasnt aware that the old was thrown out and new recruiters were brought in. Therefore i will retract my comments! And nooooo, based on that i don't want to get rid of them after just 1 year but you can't say that we've been too good with our draft choices for the past decade can you? WHICH IS THE MAJOR REASON AS TO WHY WE ARE IN THE POSISTION WE ARE IN TODAY!!!!
So no sorry.............it's not just one draft that i have arrived with these views!

I know what you do Cazzee and fully respect all your comments - please try to respect mine regardless of what you think of them!

Cazzesman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:36 am

Ryan I never disrespected your comments I simply put up opposing opinions to yours.

Why is it that my attitude stinks when you posted some viewpoints based on pure emotion, some obvious hindsight and little else. I don't have any problems regarding emotional posts as that is the foundation of this and many other sites, but emotion posts often bring emotional replies.

The other foundation to this site is the right of reply, which I did and now you have. We will obviously beg to differ.

Regards Cazzesman

Blue Bird · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:29 am

Elwood what impact would it have on sponsorship/membership if we went with an untried coach? I guess if you could lure Voss it might not be so bad but anyone else and we would lose out. Don't forget a fair amount of members don't analyse the inner workings of the club the way internet tragics do.

The scorched earth policy may generate excitement in some quarters but I'm betting it would alienate a lot of supporters. Agree with Danny about getting in to the kind of Richmondesque spiral of cleanouts and sackings.

OK, This Is What I Would Do. (A Bombshell)

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