Let me see. Kouta is now into his 14th year of senior AFL football. His good to excellent years - 95, 96, 99, 00, 01. Yes he has been unlucky with injuries but for f*** sake when he completes his next year, we would of returned only 33.33% of what we want and expected to see.

We all love Kouta but lets call a spade a spade.

Crap Rod !

92 93 and 94 (which was a very good season for Kouta) must be considered developement years. 97 and 98 were flat when his dad died but i remember him playing chb for Vic in 98 so it probably wasnt that bad.
Single handedly one us the 99 prelim and gifted Pagan his second flag.

Injured for all other years that didnt make your list.

Is that calling a spade a spade?? Wadd.

For the record i think he should retire at the end of this year. Pagan if no improvement the year after.

Kouta's legs can't carry him anymore so he can't lead by example and he shows absolutley no leadership qualities on the field. Yesterday in the second quarter hawthorn had four centre clearances in a row and scored four goals, rather than Kouta put himself in the middle, he half pointed to tell the young blokes what to do, then jogged back to the forward line. Two more goals to Hawthorn and then he decided to show some intiative. The result? Kouta clearance & Carlton goal. The bloke can't read the game and doesn't show the initiative a Captain should to successfully lead his team. Maybe he would have carried the captaincy better when he could still put his stamp on the game. Play on for the rest of the year then move on, same with the vice captain.

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Blue is the colour, Blue is our colourful conversation, football is the game, talking carlton is our aim, we're all together, we're all together, winning is our aim, arguing is a pain, let's debate for gain. .. .!

spade a spade. what a ridiculous staement. how about this spade. rod, yours views are unwarranted and wrong. i kouta at his best was incredible. quite simply unstoppable. i remember him making michael voss (the man that most football experts think is one of the greatest footballers of all time) look foolish and downright second rate in 2001.... the year brisbane won the flag. make no mistake anthony koutoufides has been dealt a fickle hand by the footy gods. so much so that if kouta had not destroyed his knee against richmond in 2001, i would suggest that the last 4 years would have been a very different story for the blues. perhaps not premiership threatening, but certainly not the complete disaster that they have been.

now for the true essence of this thread. i think from that previous paragraph you can probably tell that i am a huge fan of kouta. and i advocate the sentiment of most others that kouta needs to pull the pin. all that is being achieved by his playing on is giving flower ammunition to stick the boots in. the memory of his phenomenal ability is being tainted by what is happening now. i urge all who are having doubts over their memories of kouta to peruse a few tapes of games gone by. have a look at the 95 GF. i watched it the other day. was BOG by a mile. have a look at the 99 prelim. we all know it. watch any game from 2000. have a look at the brisbane game at OO in 2001.

as a leader kouta has had wow factor in buckets. but he isn't a natural leader. i think that the best form of leadership to be shown right now is to bow out gracefully. maybe even before the year is out. there are some pretty suitable games coming up that could be a great send-off for a great man. why not round 21 V Essendon*. that would be fitting. especially if it could inspire a win over a loathed enemy. just to haunt sheedy a little more. maybe he could even belt johnson for his final hurrah!!! retire round 21. promote setanta or jesse smith for the final game. there is nothing more to prove kouta. the time is right.

So is Jezza but he hasn't played in years!!

.[/quote]

FFS Get rid of anyone over 29 and be done with it!
Fact Campo Kouta and Lappo are past it . ]

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Stay tuned We're in for a BUMPY ride

I agree with the general sentiment that Kouta should probably retire. To be honest, I've been surprised that he has largely escaped criticism on these boards until maybe the last few weeks, at least relative to the vilification a player like Camporeale gets. Kouta generally seems to be cut a lot more slack than a player like Campo and to be honest I can't quite see why that should be? Remember, Kouta is on MORE money than Camporeale.

Anyway, a possible Kouta retirement, as much as the majority would probably desire it to occur, leaves as I see it two problems:

1.)Lack of experience in the side. With the likelihood of Campo/Lappin/Whitnall or at least one of the three moving on, Kouta retiring on top of this would leave us desperately short of bigger bodies and experience throughout the side. I know that we're a young side anyway and I know that it has been the kids leading the way recently, but I still reckon you need some experienced players in your side.

Losing Kouta and let's say Whitnall and Campo would leave French as really the only experienced player we'd have left. The rest would basically be a bunch of kids who are still developing. I know that we can get an experienced player in the PSD but you'd still need more by way of experience, even if the players with experience aren't exactly the best leaders of men going around.

We can't just expose a bunch of kids to the wolves without some sort of experience and developed bodies running through the side, as much as we'd all love to see all the kids get as much gametime as possible. If we think we're ordinary now, it would only get worse. So I'm not saying keep Campo/Kouta/Lance etc or get rid of them all, I'm just saying that I think that this is an issue that needs consideration.

2.) Lack of outstanding candidates to take over the captaincy. Let's face it, we can say we should give the captaincy to Stevens but I personally am not sure if he is a real 'leader'. I think that we're just happy to settle on Stevens simply because he's the 'best' candidate of a pretty poor crop of potential leaders (at this stage). We don't have an obvious replacement, in other words. I don't think we can just bestow the captaincy on someone for the sake of it. I don't think that Nick Stevens truly deserves to be captain, nor do I think that he'd be all that great a captain at the moment. Then again, Kouta isn't exactly a great captain so it is a real dilemma for us I think.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Though i think sopme of our more mature Kids may start to stand up if they are out of the shadow of Kouta / Campo / Whits.

Also i think Stevo will improve once Campo / Whits are gone ... whether he goes on and become better for it is yet to be seen but in our current plight i would make him Captain for 2006 and then we can see if this has made him lead better and stand up or just be the same as what we have already endured. Wont be any worse than what we have endured over the past 2 years and if he stands up may make Stevo a better player and a good leader as well.... Time will tell what happens hard to tell with Stevo sometimes he bleeds more than a lot of players who have been at the club a lot longer... He speaks on the media better than most of our other players .. but then again sometimes he just seems to give up... that may be due to him being pissed off with the current leadership group but maybe we will see what happens in 2006 but changes need and will happen that is one thing for sure.

Kouta should be given half of his pay packet for next year and be told "thanks for the memories"
Enjoy retirement
Your always welcome back to lend a hand to the young ones

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BOWER TO MURPHY TO JUDD GOAL !!!
BRING IT ON
mens sana in corpore sano : a sound mind in a sound body

No doubting Kouta in full flight was unstoppable. I'm simply stating the facts - the football gods have robbed us of many more great years from Kouta. Not an attack on the great man but simply stating the %'s.

One other point when was the last time we have seen Kouta appearing in the media discussing our plight? Why is it that Pagan has to always put on the brave face?

Agree with this. We were robbed of at least 5 to 6 seasons of Kouta magic. Cannot expect every year to be a gun year, but at least consistent enough to have a + impact.

As far as the media is concerned, for someone that was supposed to be 'the face of Carlton' at his last contract negeotiation - not much there either in the past 2 seasons.

Thanks for the memories Big Fella, but time to hand the captaincy reigns to Stevo - at least he's media savvy, and is thirsty for the top job.

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

Kouta was one of the best dozen footballers this club has ever produced.
Cut down by injuries and a shadow of the man he used to be.
What Kouta could never do was break out of his skin and be a leader like Voss who also was cut down by injury.
When things arent going Brissys way watch Voss go into the middle and crunch a body or two.. then the Lions are up and running again.

Kouta has a bigger body, his heights in my opinion were higher than Voss' as a player but he was never a leader of men.

I doubt Kouta will be captain next year... that honour will most likely go to Stevens. I wouldnt be surprised if they had a quiet word with Kouta and asked him if he wanted to retire...
.. I doubt Kouta will...
He probably will compromise and play a lesser role...(with Campo)

Either way we have to start againand begin rebuilding the guts of this football team without some of the familiar faces.
Onward to a brave new world.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Well said synbad I think one of the other reasons why Kouta's game dropped more than Voss' or Hirds with injury is because he relied on his super athleticism. Sometimes I forget what a superb athlete he was.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I'll need to correct you on one point George, it was actually close to three years ago that I started my anti Kouta sentiments. For that matter, throw in Campo as well, I kicked that off too, long before Synbad jumped on the wagon.

yes true Rudy and when juston madden played his first game for carlton i said he should be gotten rid of, i was right too, just took a while for him to catch up.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I think we all agree that the great man 's time has come. Nothing more tragic than seeing a legend decend into mediocraty as I saw on Saturday. The questions are - does he know it and what will he do? I think he could have a role up forward next year and with no leader responsibilities could be an asset, but no midfield or defence.
Go Blues

Brilliant work, Danny. One of your best. I guess you're more sober than when you post your essays and poems...

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Kouta would be about a $1.80 favourite to win the B&F this year.

If he wants to go again then let him.

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Working alone. At the coalface. Scott's gone for lunch! Said he would be back in 30 mins.

I agree wholeheartedly - Bloody Richo - a waste of space - and what they did to Tony Free was an outrage. Couldn't have delisted Matty Knights any sooner. Duncan Kellaway you great big hack. Bloody Broderick earns the big bucks and wont deliver. Gaspar is having another contract renewal year. Playing like a champ only when his contract is up. Don't get me started with that bloody show pony Cambell he's a great big.................

.......................Oh hang on - supporters turning on their own............I thought this must have been a Richmond forum.

The shame of this post - shame on you George Harris......you probably never touched a football in your life however and I bet you have a sizeable roof over your toolshed.
Shame on all of you... If you think that as supporters you deserve better than we're getting, well with threads like this we deserve nothing.
It is incomprehensible that you could turn on Kouta like this.

All of you who are bagging the man can call this number

1300 136 605

Its the Richmond membership. You can @#$%&! off over there because you are not welcome at Carlton anymore

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Ecclesiastes 1:4, "One generation passes away, and another generation comes: but The Blues abide forever."

Don't hold back now DN

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!