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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
Dukes wrote:
TheSheik wrote:
Synbad wrote:
I dont know Sheik how about you tell me what Houla is on????
And Bradley played at a time when Williams, Brown , Ratten , Johnston and Buckley won the ball.... and we were succesful.

We need balance at the club. ... we dont have balance.
I dont know whether Ryan will be around... maybe he will maybe he wont but theres alot of improvement in Ryan still...


Don't answer a question with a question, just pluck a figure out that would be within the ballpark.

I pointed out that we had players of that calibre around Bradley, that is not in dispute, especially the part about our success.

I'm at a loss to understand what this improvement Houlihan will make that you talk of especially given he is now a 100 game player for the club ?? If you listen to all of the other experts here, he has these "silky skills" so what else does he need to improve upon ?? I'm told he can kick (they say he's one of the few who can hit a target), he can smother (nice skill), he can take marks (terrific) and he knows how to handball too. What is it that you are referring to here ??


When he signed it was in the region of $180k per year. He was criticised for holding out for that but it's hardly an earth-shattering amount.

IMO I don't think he's a backman, especially not suited to marking the small foward pockets of the opposition (eg H Miller, T Clarke, etc). Surely a more appropriate match-up would have been one of the medium sized hawks such as Lekkas or Dixon. His two turnovers early in the game and his supposed 'shirk' in the final qtr (not entirely convinced as to what he was supposed to do apart from drop his knees into the marking player) when Franklin came sliding in, dropped the mark and was awarded the free-kick for a 'good effort' were talked about by the commentators ad infinitum. However, he delivered perfectly to Fev and Longmuir when he was in the attacking half of the field without a mention. We're happy to take the good with the bad with many of our players ... there are more positives than negatives to Houlas' game overall.

We don't have talent or depth but I'd cut the talentless (there's any of 10 to choose from) before we cut Houlas.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:07 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Did you guys want him to cannon his legs into Franklin's head?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:21 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Trade him for a ruckman.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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TheSheik wrote:
Who was it that coined the nickname 'The Blouse' for him ?? It goes as far back as the old TBV on the Ezboard format.


Dunno? I'd heard him called that well before I stumbled across Carlton fan forums on the web.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I'm not sure which version of the Houligan we are discussing, because people still seem to talk about his ability to kick the football.

I have seen little evidence of that skill this year, with the possible exception of the Port Adeliade game when he delivered twice to fevola well, after running the lines, when he was under no pressure.

He coughs the ball up. Simple.

Why have a player who gives it away so often?

how can an elite footballer, irrespective of how much they are paid, have such appalling skills?

Add to that his shirking of the issue (a la Saturday) and I cannot see him surviving the cut.

(and I know he's not the only one, but he is the one we are discussing).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:34 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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The Vet wrote:
He coughs the ball up. Simple..



Its more when he swings on to his left foot - he overestimates his ability to kick with his left foot by about 15 metres - and invariably kicks it short of his target and in the arms of an opponent - I cringe ever time he goes for his left foot when he is in defence as it invariably costs. He is genuinely pretty good on his right foot IMHO.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:34 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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AGRO wrote:
The Vet wrote:
He coughs the ball up. Simple..



Its more when he swings on to his left foot - he overestimates his ability to kick with his left foot by about 15 metres - and invariably kicks it short of his target and in the arms of an opponent - I cringe ever time he goes for his left foot when he is in defence as it invariably costs. He is genuinely pretty good on his right foot IMHO.

Agree AGRO...a total overestimation of his left (chip) kick. Also seems to hang forever which doesn't help.
Didn't think you were saying the tribunal was a defense, I just don't think he thought about it. He could've put his shoulder and arm out in front but shirked. MAybe it wouldn't have ahd an effcet and like Hilton in front of Neitz, he would've needed a shoulder reco ....but I doibt it. He saw he couldn't get to the ball before Franklin so he shirked it in the hope that the ball would spill and he'ld still have his feet....pure and simple...

(BTW AGRO, snot box or snot block?? either way ...mmmmmmmmmm)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:40 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

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I felt embarrassed watching that Franklin incident, not only for Houla but the whole club as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Houla's effort :roll: against Melbourne on the Legends stand wing in the Last Suburban Game was a much stronger shirking effort (more shirked :?:) than his one on Saturday

And what made even more impressive was that it was done right in front of Bruce Doull :cry:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:28 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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I dont remember Tony Shaw saying Rhys' career was over when he shirked the issue. :?

I've seen Lappin shirk it several times this year, I've seen Mark Johnson shirk it worse than Houla did.
All players hear footsteps at some stage, Gary Ablett junior last year.
Any player who goes for a mark one handed is usually fearing contact. eg Dean Solomon, James Hird, Nick Stevens, etc......

It happens.

BTW, Houla would have hit Fevola on the tit more times than any player this year.
Have some perspective.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:23 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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We've got more than a few players who just aren't up to AFL standard and a couple who are barely up to VFL standard. They're surely in line for the chop before Houlihan who can actually play despite his girly attack on the ball. If the club sees fit to trade him then that's fine, but if they see fit to keep him that's fine too.
There's plenty of deadwood to get rid of before we start on the shrubs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:53 pm 
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Robert Walls

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The Vet wrote:
I'm not sure which version of the Houligan we are discussing, because people still seem to talk about his ability to kick the football.

I have seen little evidence of that skill this year, with the possible exception of the Port Adeliade game when he delivered twice to fevola well, after running the lines, when he was under no pressure.

He coughs the ball up. Simple.

Why have a player who gives it away so often?

how can an elite footballer, irrespective of how much they are paid, have such appalling skills?



Last I checked (?3 weeks ago) was our equal leader for goal assists having set up 15 goals by direct disposal and in the top 13 in the AFL (Prowess sports). You don't remember him hitting our forwards more than twice this year? At least 4 occasions on Sat alone.


Last edited by BlueWorld on Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:21 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

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Synbad wrote:
Why do i have to do everything around here Sheik???
I hate it when people want me to do everything..... :evil: :twisted:
Especially when theiur mothers have not taught them to say PLEASE!!!!!


Admit it Synners, you love it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:58 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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Blue Vain wrote:
BTW, Houla would have hit Fevola on the tit more times than any player this year.
Have some perspective.


Fev actually prefers to get the ball from Houls than anyone else.
They are best mates.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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BlueWorld wrote:
The Vet wrote:
I'm not sure which version of the Houligan we are discussing, because people still seem to talk about his ability to kick the football.

I have seen little evidence of that skill this year, with the possible exception of the Port Adeliade game when he delivered twice to fevola well, after running the lines, when he was under no pressure.

He coughs the ball up. Simple.

Why have a player who gives it away so often?

how can an elite footballer, irrespective of how much they are paid, have such appalling skills?



Last I checked (?3 weeks ago) was our equal leader for goal assists having set up 15 goals by direct disposal and in the top 13 in the AFL (Prowess sports). You don't remember him hitting our forwards more than twice this year? At least 4 occasions on Sat alone.


To be honest, I remember him far more for his clangers. But I would love to see the Statistics you refer to. What is the web site? The Prowess sports web site I accessed did not have "goal assists".

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:04 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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We kind o9f focus on what we want to focus.
Ive seen Kouta shirk it this year.....hes the captain of our proud club!!!!

That was especially obvious against Jonathon Brown in the third quarter.
Also against Goddard in the third.. :shock:

Plus his captaincy responsibilities for 2 thirds of the year....

Ryan is a young man... a couple younger than Travis Johnston who people are raving about this year who shirks it more than anyone...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:59 pm 
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Robert Walls

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The Vet wrote:
To be honest, I remember him far more for his clangers. But I would love to see the Statistics you refer to. What is the web site? The Prowess sports web site I accessed did not have "goal assists".


That's a surprise. They were up about 3 weeks ago. I have it in PDF format which I don't think can be posted.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:57 am 
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Robert Walls
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Blue Vain wrote:
I dont remember Tony Shaw saying Rhys' career was over when he shirked the issue. :?

I've seen Lappin shirk it several times this year, I've seen Mark Johnson shirk it worse than Houla did.
All players hear footsteps at some stage, Gary Ablett junior last year.
Any player who goes for a mark one handed is usually fearing contact. eg Dean Solomon, James Hird, Nick Stevens, etc......

It happens.

BTW, Houla would have hit Fevola on the tit more times than any player this year.
Have some perspective.


Well said BV...but won't hold my breath waiting for Tony Shaw to comment on other players doing it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:14 am 
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Bruce Doull
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When Houla signed it was for a lot of money... what the amount was is anyones guess because i have heard a couple of figures.
Houla did leave the table with more than he should have.


Like Campo... Houla is not a main man. He is a player that can cut you to pieces in a good side.
We arent a good side but the club was desperate to keep him because they would have lost him for nothing...
Houla will be trade bait like 85% of the list but he does have the tools to become a better player than he has shown.
I really cant hack people that bag kids... theres plenty to focus on before turning on the kids.
People like Shiek have been bagging Ryan since he was 20 years old...
Compare him to Travis Johnston who was a very early pick and is not physical...
If Houla was a pick in the top 5 id spew but as a 70 something he has done pretty good for the club.

There is no doubt that next year he will be in a position where he will HAVE TO REALLY step it up...

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:36 am 
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Serge Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
I really cant hack people that bag kids... theres plenty to focus on before turning on the kids.
People like Shiek have been bagging Ryan since he was 20 years old...


We are not 'bagging' a kid here, we are constructively criticising a 23yo 100 game player who put his hand out for some big bucks a couple of years ago. I fail to see how you can be all over Camporeale for taking his exorbitant paypacket and not perform but think that we are being harsh on Houlihan for the same thing ?? On a pro-rata basis (age & experience), Houlihan would be higher paid than Camporeale yet who seem to conveniently gloss over that fact.

For the record, I couldn't give a rat's clack what players at other clubs do on the field, they mean nothing to me, if they are seen to be soft or shirkers, then great, we'll exploit that weakness at the appropriate time. I am only concerned with the players who run out to represent the Carlton footy club, if they are soft squibs who take short steps, then I am going to come down on them like a ton of grandmothers. There is no place at our club for softcocks, they must be eradicated from the playing list. These sorts of players are the ones who will cost the club in a final, mark my words !!


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