hearing to many stories to just dismiss this, but it seems that our problems run a lot deeper than just our poor list. the players look disinterested and laking motivation. do we have to put up with this for another 3 years or do we nip it in the bud now?

They didn't look so bad in the Wizard Cup...it's all a state of mind. We're not that bereft of talent, Adelaide aren't that talented. Hopefully with a change of the personnel that are holding us back and a win or two would gather confidence and momentum.

It's pretty obvious to me that we aren't this bad and have this little talent and I've been saying that for a while. But when you lose a few the confidence just goes and all sorts of mental problems creep in, player discontent rises etc and it all just goes from bad to worse. No doubt that we do need an injection of talent but the problems certainly run deeper than a perceived lack of talent.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Hence why Kouta, Campo and Lance need to be moved on.

Their output for the team is like the rot.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Yeah you could be right pj. I've said in another thread that I hope that Kouta retires, although I don't think it will happen. Campo will stay I think, who is going to take him? So I don't see how he can be 'moved on' if nobody will want him and he wouldn't retire I wouldn't think. Lance I think will be moved on.

But having said that pj I reckon Lance can hold his head with regard to his season, he certainly hasn't been our worst player and has played in defence too which is clearly not his best position. But yes maybe it will be better for both Lance and the club if he moved on.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Yeah I agree with you, B2005.

Despite most people wanting Campo to piss off back to SA, I doubt it will happen. Unless he puts in monumental efforts in the next 5 weeks, he will be at Carlton next year.

Kouta should retire, but won't.

Lance has done well so far in season 2005. It's a shame we coudln't get more out of him and it is particularly good to hear that he realises that his time at Carlton is pretty much up.

Makes for a more smoother transisition to another club.
Also eliminates any chance of him trying to screw us over.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Can't he just walk into the PSD regardless of putting a figure on his head,and screw us I doubt he would but if the club piss him off enough,who knows!

He could, but given recent comments from Synbad about Lance and his thoughts on his future, I doubt he would.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Lance has been good for us this year. He knows, as does the club, that it's time to part company.

Lance is thinking ahead and playing his guts out (no pun intended) for currency. Now the clubs are lining up!!!

Give me two 1st rounders please!!!!

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

O.K,if Synbad says he won't walk he must be right!

Why? If no other clubs want him, and Carlton don't want to offer him a new contract...that would be it. Delisted. Just like Hulme two years ago.

All players are either traded, retired or delisted eventually.

Good point.
But we'd be stupid if we let him go for nothing.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

Agree. But we'd only be letting him go for nothing if someone else saw value in him and we didn't organise a suitable trade...in which case I'm sure the appropriate deal would be made.

Hulme wanted to be traded once he realised he wasn't wanted any more, but no-one saw any value in him.

Who is going to take Lance?Hawthorn ...Collingwood????Theyre rebuilding so why take a punt on a guy like Lance.
Lance will go to a team that thinks theyre a player or two from a premiership....

thats why he wont walk...

No certainty in walking...

Plus we all know where he lives....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

The rpoblems are much deeper than the playing list or indivivual players. I am looking at the football dept as a whole ('cept our recruiters who need a lot more resources)

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

BM.... i keep asking you this...
If its our football department is it the boards fault?
They have re appointed the football dept only 4 months ago for another THREE years..,..

Surely you can answer that...????


Denis is about taking no prisoners as is Collo...
If were going to start going down the road of the StKildas and the Richmonds of yesteyear who would change the coach because the players didnt like what they were trying to do... well we better just chuck it in.
Board members might blame a strong coach when things are tough..(especially after the board re appointed him)...but theyre knee jerk reactionaries if thats what theyre doing...
You see theyre up for election at some stage....

Everyone is accountable.
The players to the MC
The MC to the board...
The board to us.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

G'day BM & Synbad,

The both of you should be aware that nothing gets done unless it has been ok'd by Collo. There have been a lot of decisions in the club, that I thought were quite crazy, but the theory behind it has much substance. Collo's continuance to outsource many things have come at a financial cost, but has removed a lot of risk out of the equation. There are some players which has caused much concern for the overall "environment" of the club.

This year will be the year when everything is finally put to rest and the real step forwards will begin. From the little information that I hear, a few things have taken a long time to try to achieve. The playing groups state of mind is really a low priority issue as Pagan can whip the boys in a frenzy next year. Good things are coming.

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Leaders do not care what other people say about them. When people start talking crap about you, thats when you know you've made it

Synbad I have answered your question at least three times, but we all have learnt you only listen to yourself. BTW you never answered my question.

So who at fault re the on field attitude of the players?


Just to reiterate my answer, I believe it is a shared responsilbity between the coaching staff and playing group for on field attitude.

Whats yours?

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Everyone is playing a part in our demise this season. I think it is the coaches responsibility to get his players up for a game. If some players have attitude problems or issues or simply dont give a shit, the coach needs to address these problems and let them know that as long as they are earning a salary they need to perform. They should be asked if they have any pride in themselves, and if they care at all about the club. Also if certain players do not respond to this they should be dropped. I really reckon Collo should meet with all the players alone, and ask them what they think the reason are for all these problems are, and if they have any issues with the club, coach etc. They need to look outside the square and ask the players themselves. They are the clubs most valuable commodity.

I honestly believe though, and please do not shoot me down for saying this but I do think pagan is not coaching to the players advantage this year, and I dont think he is really coaching to win.

Why else would you explain against Hawthorn, when Carlton were looking dangerous in the forward line, he takes Waite off and puts him in the back line. Stevens got taken off at one stage, and he looked really pissed. Betts was doing fantastically crumbing off the packs, he got taken off the ground. Why didn't Walker have more game time ? Whitnall did ok in the back line but hello Hawthorn have a quick small forward line. Was this necessary ??????? These are some of my thoughts.

Well in that case youre blaming the board.
In my opinion the problem is the [REDACTED] attitude around the club of some of the senior players which makes Denis run the plAce with an iron fist.
So theres your answer ..
YOU STILL havent said if you think the board is responsible for signing Denis up after watching him for TWO and a HALF seasons... and in your opinion making a 2million dollar boo boo....!!!!

That IS WHAT YOURE SAYING ISNT IT?????

You cant say its Denis fault but protect the board from the fall out!!!!
If its Denis fault and the board has mucked up 2 million dollars they MUST ALL commit hari kari for making the biggest blunder ever...!!!!!

I reckon there are a few knee jerk reactionaries Mark and youre just the man to 'yodle' it ....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.