When I see a Carlton supporter advocating that we adopt a shiboner spirit you automatically know this poor sole has lost the plot.

Maybe we are turning to this because pride in the Navy Blue jumper isn't working anymore. Where has the Carlton spirit gone?? Players used to play for the love of the jumper etc etc, well it sure seems like not too many of them have that pride anymore.

Carlton won flags because we were arogant - We won flags because we used the sytem to the limit. We won flags because we didnt have this loser mentalty of the Good Aussie Battler .

Ok just so you people understand.....

Denis is from North where they have had to fight for everything including their own existence.
His record speaks for itself.. under 19s reserves VFA with Yarraville and North.
He comes to Carlton with the understanding he gets Wells Goddard a second rounder a third rounder and a player through the PSD...
History tells us he didnt... and he didnt get a first and second rounder in his next year either...
Now being from a blue collar football background (mostly with North where everything was hard fought for and a culture of hard work and mateship he comes to Carlton)

Carlton is a club all about the excess of the greedy 80s. Players have been spoilt , overpaid , treated with kit gloves... but the club is on a decline.

Denis is shocked with the club that he thought was in better shape than it was. No gym, undersized players who are being paid overpaid wages...he decides to whip the place into shape. Cracking the whip he gets players who live in Elliot/Parkins la la land off side...
Theyre not used to this drill sergeant stuff.. after all Parkin had empowered them and Elliott had promised them riches.They never had to do weights before why do them now???
McKernan had told the players all about Pagan and when it was announced that Pagan was coming McKernan felt sick in the guts. He let the others know too.
Collo had asked for a paycut from the players and when he asked the top 8 players to drive over to his office at the Dome Corey knew what it was about. He had experienced something similar at North. On the drive over he was busy telling the others that this meeting (unknown at the time was not going to be much fun) .. a few minutes with Collo and the players knew that it was not much fun. They have been asked to take a pay cut to something more realistic and they were not too happy about it.
Not taking a pay cut would have meant the club was up for salary cap breaches again so most of the players took a pay deferal.
As the year went on and Pagan eager to change the culture began the exercise of stripping down all the fat the players were chewing he got more and more off side with the fat cat players who resented what was going on .... who is this guy and what reason does he have to rock our world???
This metality is still the problem today with a handfull of players .
There is a transition of culture and some players hate that their nest egg is no longer that and that the club is shedding off its excess.

When theyre more or less gone and their little support system thats left (contracts) have been torn down i have no doubt that Denis (The master shin boner) will bring a culture to the club more befitting of where we are today rather than where the club was in the eighties.
I know some board members have lost their nerve.. (BM gets his ideas from one or two).. the ones that count are in support of Denis and the hard job at hand.
In my opinion we should support the transition before it spoils the kids..rather than the easy knee jerk reaction that the Richmonds and the Aints have used sacking coach after coach because the players ran the show...
Its a long road ahead and players like Walker and Waite will understand the Denis road might be tougher but its more rewarding than the road of Campo and Lappin...

Same old line Sydney, the players are right, the coach is wrong.

The players can be arrogant because arrogance wins premierships. True, but if you have nothing to be arrogant about then it doesn't help you.

Pagan's being arrogant. He's telling players that he's better than them, that they need to start performing etc. What part of the Carlton spirit is Denis not showing? I thought you said that arrogance won premierships. That's true, and isn't Denis showing some arrogance by saying that some of them aren't good enough?

Quite happy to oblige AGRO. So I gather that you are now embracing the new Carlton Shin Boner spirit are you.

By the way the opportunity to through the system out presented itself but our Grass Growing Leader choose to roll over like a lap dog for his friends at the AFL


THE CARLTON SHIN BONERS see I am getting used to it already

But the only way Carlton are going to overcome the shit we are in is by working within the current system - if that means embracing a bit of Shinboner spirit so be it - at least its a spirit borne of hard work - not like the crap thats going on down Moorabbin way.

What are they doing wrong at StKilda? Haven't we been after every one of their players that come out of contract?

Are you alluding to the fact we should have takent the AFL to court of the player payment rules, draft rules and the fact that they clearly represent breach of the Trade Practises Act as a restraint of trade etc etc etc, WAADA, WAADA, WAADA.

No problem then as a Board Member you would have diverted the $1,000,000 that the club raised from its Members after Black Friday 2002 - towards a court challenge, rather than to plug the debts that were haemorraging our club to oblivion.

Look Sydney, the AFL shit me, Jackson shits me, Ron Evans shits me, Demetrispew shit me. One day I will get the satisfaction of spitting on their collective graves.

But the only way Carlton are going to overcome the shit we are in is by working within the current system - if that means embracing a bit of Shinboner spirit so be it - at least its a spirit borne of hard work - not like the crap thats going on down Moorabbin way.

But I will tell you one thing - I will always bleed Carlton, I will always cry Carlton and when I get the chance to stick it up the people who have kicked us while we are down I will do it with enormous gusto.

So you just keep going along and create your own little world, and let me know when you are going to make a run for the AFL Commission.

We talk about giving guys like Livo time to develop, we should give guys like Reiwoldt, Kosi, Ball, Goddard and DalSanto time to develop before we start questioning why they aren't dominating the comp. These guys are the same age and younger.

Same old CC - Its all Campo - Whitnal and now lappins fault.
And I dont believe that the Carlton Spirit was to bottom out for draft picks - So there is Carlton spirit that Denis is not showing.
Tell me CC what big name out of contract player is busting his gut to get over to The New Shinboners . It seems to me the moment their name is linked with Carlton they are rushing to sign at their own club for any amount. Lets get rid of 3 or 4 of our top line players that are continually named in our best players week in week out and bring over a few more shinboners shall we.

God I love losing - just as long as I have that Shin boner in me

THE CARLTON SHIN BONERS see I am getting used to it already

The old culture was shocking wasn't it playing in finals, winning flags. I'm so glad the culture at the club at the moment has changed for the better.

And not even getting a sniff of bagging one.

Reckon we will struggle to attract a big name player in the off season.