Now you are starting to sound like Synbad.

Fev and Livo both have gone backwards from last year. In my view Livos best year was 2002.

The teams performance has gone backwards from last year.

Thus Dennis coaching has also gone backwards. At the end of the day the teams overall performance is the Coaches responsibility. End of story.

Given your line of reasoning then Brittan should have stayed after our last wooden spoon year.

You can spin it anyway you want but this year has been nothing short of a disaster and the coach should not be spared his fair share of crititism.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

now Mark don't get touchy - but criticising Denis is fine, its calling for him to be sacked that i think is wrong.

Do I think Denis has had a great year - no.

Do I think he should go - no.

be patient here.

Whereas you seem to be saying - Denis has lost it, sack him, start again. That, to me, is the most dangerous thing the club could do right now. After two years with said new coach, if things are not right what do we do, sack him and start again?

This will take some years. Denis re-entered the draft last year, for me that is year 1. This will be year 2 - and many clubs often go forward then back before forward again - watch Richmond next year Wait til end of next year Mark and let's see. But sack him now. no way.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

2 weeks ago Blue Mark was telling us what guns Campo and Lance were...
And how theyre very much required players around the club.. loyal servants.. blah blah blah.. chuck!!!!
Campo wasnt on around 650 plus and Lance wasnt on 500 plus ...

Now he is telling us Pagan is a shit coach... (2 premierships cough cough cough)



Blue Mark = No CREDIBILITY.... zilch...


Like i said its Captain Flip Flop...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Dannyboy , I love your work but:

Would you mind not using my avatar (check my previous posts for proof of first use)

People may get confused and I would hate to think they thought of me as a master wordsmith and all round good guy.

If you like it that much perhaps we can work out a suitable trade?

sorry about that

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

None of us really know what's going on between coach and players. But I can only imagine the frustration of being a Denis Pagan or any other coach that inherits a team of players that isn't up to it.

A couple of years ago I inherited an underperforming team of people. The thing to do was watch them and help them, sort out who had talent (ability and passion) and who didn't, and as quickly as possible replace those who didn't have it with those who did.

While I had more than my fair share of people who weren't up to it, we underperformed. And there was nothing I could do.

But because the real world doesn't have drafts, and I wasn't banned from bringing in talented people who really had the passion to make a difference, we turned it around pretty quickly.

Being a coach in an environment where EVERY decision is compromised, where your plans have to conform to an incredibly rigid set of rules, where your first two years force you into limbo as you make do with what you've got and can only employ people who were sacked from other companies because they weren't up to it... well, that'd have to be the worst job going round.

I can empathise with Pagan. He has faults, everyone does. But the circumstances he finds himself in would only serve to magnify those faults tenfold, I'd imagine.

Personally, the last thing I'd want this year is a fire and brimstone John Northey coaching effort where the team is somehow dragged to 8 or 9 wins. It'd put a few smiles on our faces, but that way Richmond of the 80's and 90's lay.

My take on Pagan? I've got no idea, but if I were him I wouldn't give two stuffs about this year at all. I'd know that my hands have been completely tied by the AFL and 2004/5 and perhaps even 2006 were PRE-ORDAINED by:

1. Our abysmal lack of recruiting during the late 90's, early 00's. We basically stopped dead and now we're paying.

2. Our inability to recruit talent, when we needed it most (compounding problem 1) courtesy of our penalty.

I'd have nothing to prove short of bring Carlton a premiership, so I wouldn't worry about chickenshit home and away performances in 2005. I'd be working SOLELY to 07 and 08.

Is he doing this? None of us know. But that's where my focus would be, and given that he seems an intelligent man who's succeeded repeatedly in the football world, then I'd have to give him credit for doing just this.

But Mark, you're right in asking the question. But unfortunately, these questions have a habit of snowballing into a feral witchhunt by those (not you, obviously) less able to discuss things rationally.

So in other words John you agree with everything I say

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I can empathise with Denis..
I have to put up with Surrey, Sydney Blue and Blue Mark...
I cant even play for priority picks....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Well, yes Danny. But why should I use your words when I can use mine?

I think there are a few people here who have tried to say the same thing - but credit to you - you put it very well indeed.

I am disappointed to see so many here doing the Richmond type "slash wrist, dooms-day, sack the coach" approach. But, well they are football supporters.....

What worries me more is that even a couple of board members (according to Synbad) are loosing their nerve. We don't need that....

yes its all about holding our nerve - this is the real test for this club.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Spot on buddy. Are you in the SC at halftime tomorrow? We can share a beer and some tears..

should be there got to get back from the lad's game but I should make it. Your shout of course!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I can see tomorrows newspaper headlines already "BlueMark dumps horse manure at club"

DB is absolutely right about being patient, coach etc and IMO we should wait another two years before reassessing the whole situation.

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

thank you James (said with me wearing my bikini)

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

love you new avatar, wanna swap?

just kiddin

Is this the same Dannyboy that wrote all that garbage last week about Marc Murphy? Makes you wonder - split personality

Huh?

No No sometimes I write in jest - its up to you to work ouut when.
besides marc from all accountsin a great footballer who loves tryant and i am insanely jealous.

why couldn;t a footballer love me

huh?

just 1

is that too muvch to ask

tommmmmmi (said like Shaaaaaane! in that wonderful western, the kid chasing the wounded shane on his horse and he ride sinto history).

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I thought it was said like " Stellllllllaaaaaaaa!"

na thats when I'm feeling itchy

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!