Given our current situation, I can't believe some people want us to miss the priority pick.

Winning's great and all, but we aren't in the business of playing in finals or playing off for a flag. We are in the process of re-building and are already behind the 8 ball.

By missing out on coming last, we will put ourselves further behind.

Why can't some of you understand that?

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

you do know that judd went at No.3. dont you?

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

Why do we always mention the fact we have to lose to pick up a priority pick. There are other methods to gaining the PP w/out losing deliberately, such as playing new guys in the team to see where they are at, also playing players in different positions and different roles to see how they perform, also tyring different game tactics etc etc. Do you think Denis Pagan doesn't know this? Tim Watson and co, mentioned similar things this morning on SEN. They also said it would be a waste if we won more than five games.

Now my question to Locke, Prez and whoever else thinks we should WIN every remaining game and not worry about PP, high draft picks and 1st pick in PSD, in other words using the system to your advantage.

The question is:- in your opinion how would you rebuild the club, if you don't want to exploit the draft system?

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

there is massive difference between losing and wanting to lose.

this is what myself, and many others, cant understand about your ideals.

i would love to get the 1st Pick, but not at the expense of losing deliberately.

Is there no honour left for the team you support?

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

the interesting thing in all this is that games are now meaningless, that a game only means something if you can win the flag - therefore really only some games are meaningful the rest are not.


the upshot of course is that meaningful seasons occur only every now and then so really any team should tank every non meaningful season.


of course the old way of thinking was that it was the game that had meaning not theresult.

but we at carlton have lost that.

which is why we cheated in the first place

and may be doing so again. If we fail to play like we did on sunday for the rest of the year then yes, we are cheating. Any team that plays outside the spirit of the geame is cheating. Are we playing outside the spirit?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

The only person who knows this is Denis Pagan dannyboy.

I'm sure that most if not all of us want to get the priority pick, some of us just don't want to finish last to get it...

Spot on spuddie. Unfortunaetly that is probably the only we to get the bloody PP

I've already stated above that there are other ways of playing without wanting to lose deliberately.

But my question still remains to be answered, how would, um lets say the "Win At All Cost" camp rebuild the club if you don't want to get PP, real early picks and 1/2 PSD pick? How? Please don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go, just wanting to see a range of ideas...

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

Geelong havent got a PP ever I dont think and there pretty good.
Out of form now but I still reckon they have got one of the best lists in the league.

Bottoming out is over-rated. Dees bottom out every second year and they probably wont make the 8 this year.

It's every other year that costs them.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

I don't think Geelong is that good!

I think they're pretty good also, but is the difference between being "pretty good" and "excellent" the fact that they never got low picks?

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

Neither do I

Talent wise on the field

Geelong pretty good, not much chance of winning a flag
Saint Kilda, AWESOME and a great chance of winning a flag or two

Theres the difference guys and gals with priority picks we can be like Saint Kilda (talent wise) or we can be like Geelong

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A macfart a day helps you work rest and play

Exactly

I have no doubt that getting the P.P's is the best way - not the only way but certainly the best way - then again I am absolutely certain cheating the salary cap was better than losing players so if the only criteria is the result then we should cheat.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I must say that I like the way you smell, I mean the way you think

Totally agree

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

There is no honour left, no. This is what this ridiculous system has done. Sure, the never-coulds like St.Kilda are given a hitch and its great for their long suffering supporters to taste some success, but what is it worth? It's hollow. Hollow, hollow, hollow.

But we are not going to change that by winning the next four games. We are not only going to shoot ourselves in the foot, we'll also shoot ourselves in the head.

What do the AFL care for us as a team, our heritage, our pride? What do supporters of other teams care? It's really hard to say this because I feel like I am betraying the spirit and history of Carlton, but we need to redefine our support in alignment with the priveledges, (no matter how [REDACTED] the concepts are), of the current system.

I hate that an unhindered desire to want to smash your opposition week in week out does not exist any more. It's [REDACTED], but it's how it is. And it becomes more obvious later in the season...games involving bottom placed teams, who have a chance to reap all the presents in November, are basically nil-void, cannot be trusted, dubious at best, rubbish, fodder, nothing-games. Thats what this equal market sputum has engendered.

We not going to show anybody anything by hitting some form now. Winning is now a long term concept whereby a strategy of draft manipulation is required. I wish I didn't love Carlton so much because I hate that last sentence.

Dannyboy i am not advocating that if we look at the season at round 12 and say little chance of the 8 okay lets tank...

This year has shown me one thing i remeber the inept performance against the Tigers earlier in the year i remember some of the other games with equal lacking of skills we for most of this year havnt been cometative ..our depth is very slim so a couple of injuries to us cripples the team ... other teams a couple of injuries they just bring in abother option of near talent. This year has exposed the team and club that as PJ stated we are way behind the 8 Ball in regards to being properly competative today but i think like myself and a gfew others think that potentially with a few good kids and possible good trades maybe even getting a good pick up in the PSD next year we could see a much quicker recovery which i think would make everybody a lot happier for 2006.

If you hear other clubs ... Bulldogs / Hawks / Tigers ect all these clubs senior players have had a big injection of enthusim and spirit just knowing they have some potentially talented kids who they know will give them a spark. See interviews with Spider he is glowing in his praise of Hodge / Franklin / Roughhead ect
Richo in the Tigers .. the Spark that Delidio / Tambling have given them... Last nite with Smith from the Bulldogs heaped heaps of praise on Griffen / Cooney / Faren Ray ect and how it had ignited the hunger in the Seniors...
If this year has that affect on our list and we get some potential good kids and drafts into the group... The side will lift and get a boost. Talent and enthusiasm is infectioous in a club enviroment.. Combine that with some of the kids in our VFL side and i reckon we will have a good mix into 2006.

This year is ripe for us to have the oppertunuity to get the best of the draft... Maybe we are all saying we should get last but in fact regardless of what we think it will happen.. Maybe the MC will tweak to help us get last ... i have no idea .. but if we get last that is the best senario for the Blues in 2005